CBF1000

CBF1000 => CBF1000 - General Discussion => Topic started by: SaturnV on 24 August, 2016, 02:46:02 PM

Title: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: SaturnV on 24 August, 2016, 02:46:02 PM
Just got back from visiting a mate down in Godalming area and was proudly demonstrating the benefits of my Givi Monokey Topbox system when he pointed out a major flaw in the security... 

He looked underneath the plastic baseplate onto which the topbox is attached and locked and glibly commented 'great security but the only thing is those 4 nuts underneath can easily be removed and the thief can then lift the box straight off the carrier rack and walk off with the whole thing'

Dammit!  I'm fairly sure he's correct - need to check that tomorrow when I've cooled down a bit - sweltering hot journey back up the A3 etc. today  :087:
Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: alan sh on 24 August, 2016, 03:28:11 PM
He is correct. Put some superglue over the screws.
Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: SaturnV on 24 August, 2016, 04:36:06 PM
Must be a better way surely? Superglue breaks down after a while I believe. Maybe I can reverse the nuts & use some dome headed ones underneath, they can't possibly been undone....
Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: richardcbf on 24 August, 2016, 06:10:20 PM
*Originally Posted by SaturnV [+]
Must be a better way surely? Superglue breaks down after a while I believe. Maybe I can reverse the nuts & use some dome headed ones underneath, they can't possibly been undone....
Yeh, if you get 'coach' / 'carriage' bolts (with a square profile under the head) and use a square file to modify the holes in the metal 'rack' (base plate carrier) to suit.....
M6 x 35mm bolt ?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=m6+x+35mm+%28coach+%2C+carriage%29&_sop=15
&
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Files/147806/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=square&_sop=15

 :027:
Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: Biker Mike on 24 August, 2016, 06:17:21 PM
I've two types of Givi top box mounting plate and neither would come off if you tried removing the nuts below as the bolt would simply turn with the nut once loosened (I need a hex key in the bolt head to stop it turning), or is the one you describe a different design?
Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: SaturnV on 24 August, 2016, 09:30:46 PM
*Originally Posted by richardcbf [+]
Yeh, if you get 'coach' / 'carriage' bolts (with a square profile under the head) and use a square file to modify the holes in the metal 'rack' (base plate carrier) to suit.....
M6 x 35mm bolt ?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=m6+x+35mm+%28coach+%2C+carriage%29&_sop=15
&
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/Files/147806/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=square&_sop=15

 :027:

 :460: :460:

Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: SaturnV on 24 August, 2016, 09:38:12 PM
*Originally Posted by Biker Mike [+]
I've two types of Givi top box mounting plate and neither would come off if you tried removing the nuts below as the bolt would simply turn with the nut once loosened (I need a hex key in the bolt head to stop it turning), or is the one you describe a different design?

 :460: I must try that myself next time I visit my garage lol - such a pain having bike away from home :-(

Keep meaning to move to 'the country'  so I can have the luxury of a place with limitless space and vehicle storage; so envious of aforementioned mate I was visiting who has 2 garages and various barns on his land - 2 bikes 3 cars and various random pseudo-military/agricultural  vehicles, e.g. Eager Beaver forklift 4 wheel drive, mini JCB and mini-tractor, etc.. I have to put up with a council rented garage for me bikes and resident parking permits for cars :-(
Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: alan sh on 24 August, 2016, 09:43:46 PM
*Originally Posted by Biker Mike [+]
I've two types of Givi top box mounting plate and neither would come off if you tried removing the nuts below as the bolt would simply turn with the nut once loosened (I need a hex key in the bolt head to stop it turning), or is the one you describe a different design?

I was thinking of the two screws that hold on the triangular bit at the back of the plate that the lock goes into. Look underneath and you should find two allen bolts that can be undone (or used to be - maybe it's changed recently).

I only know this because mine came loose a few years ago on a VFR I had.

Alan
Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: Biker Mike on 25 August, 2016, 05:59:15 AM
*Originally Posted by alan sh [+]
I was thinking of the two screws that hold on the triangular bit at the back of the plate that the lock goes into. Look underneath and you should find two allen bolts that can be undone (or used to be - maybe it's changed recently).

I only know this because mine came loose a few years ago on a VFR I had.

Alan
I gotcha.
My top box mountings have moulded latches on the plates.
Because I've built my own luggage, my Givi top box carriers bolt to solid aluminium plate, so only the mounting bolt nylock nuts are accessible.
Maybe that's a solution for others; put a plate of 1mm aluminium or ABS between the Givi mount and the rails it bolts to.

Extended rack plate used for touring
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb330/strognofe/P1050561b_zps3fdezgws.jpg) (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/strognofe/media/P1050561b_zps3fdezgws.jpg.html)

Short rack plate located over pillion seat for day to day use
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb330/strognofe/P1040161.jpg) (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/strognofe/media/P1040161.jpg.html)

..... and under the top cover
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb330/strognofe/P1040158.jpg) (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/strognofe/media/P1040158.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: Josiah on 25 August, 2016, 09:02:16 AM
Goods morning

I just thought I'd chip in on this one, if I was a little light fingered and was carrying tools to break into a motorbike top box, I probably would not bother breaking into the top box, I'd nick the bike and it's luggage, nicking bikes ain't rocket science, are we not getting a bit paranoid here.............

Josiah ( still )  :125: ( and perhaps kneeds a koffy or 3 )
Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: SaturnV on 25 August, 2016, 09:06:10 AM
*Originally Posted by Josiah [+]
Goods morning

I just thought I'd chip in on this one, if I was a little light fingered and was carrying tools to break into a motorbike top box, I probably would not bother breaking into the top box, I'd nick the bike and it's luggage, nicking bikes ain't rocket science, are we not getting a bit paranoid here.............

Josiah ( still )  :125: ( and perhaps kneeds a koffy or 3 )

Just cos I'm paranoid doesn't mean they ain't all out to get me  :mfrlol:
Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: shumba on 25 August, 2016, 09:11:30 AM
*Originally Posted by Josiah [+]
Goods morning

I just thought I'd chip in on this one, if I was a little light fingered and was carrying tools to break into a motorbike top box, I probably would not bother breaking into the top box, I'd nick the bike and it's luggage, nicking bikes ain't rocket science, are we not getting a bit paranoid here.............

Josiah ( still )  :125: ( and perhaps kneeds a koffy or 3 )

  :0461:  Why would anyone spend time tying to steal a top box from a motorcycle ? .  They only contain biking junk and if they where really that desperate to steal the contents any top box or panniers can be opened with a scew driver in 3 seconds.
Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: richardcbf on 25 August, 2016, 06:55:32 PM
*Originally Posted by shumba [+]
  :0461:  Why would anyone spend time tying to steal a top box from a motorcycle ? .  They only contain biking junk and if they where really that desperate to steal the contents any top box or panniers can be opened with a scew driver in 3 seconds.
Come on Dave, just because you happen to be biased* (against hard luggage) it doesn't mean other people don't believe differently and/or carry non-'junk'.
Anyway, you're contradicting yourself.....
*Originally Posted by shumba [+]
......They can be forced open in two seconds with a screw driver .and only make it appear there is something worth swiping inside . In all the years that  l have been using throw overs l have never had any thing touched ,Some one has said they are a hassle to get on and off ,l leave mine on for the duration of the trip, and  taken off when back home .My luggage is practical and well proven and that is what l will continue to use , l will be leave the hard luggage to the posers  and those that have a phobia and paranoia about having stuff pinched.

* https://www.cbf1000.com/index.php?action=search2;params=eJwtjsEOgyAQRH-l6aWXOQiC1q8xCBtpg2JAbJrw8V0bb_PebiZj3GFWS64-qqj3WjKlvJFlzL4sk2E3pfMq0UJBC6gBuoWWkE_oBqqDaiB7CMgBUkO0YOggekh-4qC4JPv4GW1ctkA7cd2pyvQmu49xDd_LxLSP7pWYHGV7GaZEgf47T0UmWc_Sm-RuocyzmekHq9RC0A..

 :150:
Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: SaturnV on 25 August, 2016, 07:12:36 PM
Well I intend to go touring at some point and will be adding panniers as soon as funds permit, so I do want all my luggage to be as secure as possible..  Yeah agreed most of us are guilty of carrying a certain amount of junk in the topbox but i the last few weeks I've been on 2 overnight trips and spread my luggage between the box and a backpack.  I always remove the whole topbox before leaving the bike outside overnight and love the flexibility of the Givi Monokey system but was just shocked to discover that loophole, given that it is apparently designed with security in mind...
Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: shumba on 25 August, 2016, 07:51:52 PM
*Originally Posted by richardcbf [+]
Come on Dave, just because you happen to be biased* (against hard luggage) it doesn't mean other people don't believe differently and/or carry non-'junk'.
Anyway, you're contradicting yourself.....
* https://www.cbf1000.com/index.php?action=search2;params=eJwtjsEOgyAQRH-l6aWXOQiC1q8xCBtpg2JAbJrw8V0bb_PebiZj3GFWS64-qqj3WjKlvJFlzL4sk2E3pfMq0UJBC6gBuoWWkE_oBqqDaiB7CMgBUkO0YOggekh-4qC4JPv4GW1ctkA7cd2pyvQmu49xDd_LxLSP7pWYHGV7GaZEgf47T0UmWc_Sm-RuocyzmekHq9RC0A..

 :150:

 Sorry Richard that appeared to come across the wrong way, What I meant was that the contents of a top box would possibly be a road map padlock and chain ,or water proofs ,and a helmet if it will fit in , I cant imagine any up and coming tea leaves risking the wrath of the law for things with a very low second hand value,  I think any would be thieves would know that there would be nothing of any resale value worth taking a risk for.  I can only go by my own experience in 56 years of biking in several different
countries using throw over panniers and a hold all, nothing has ever been touched. Could it be that I have just been lucky .
Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: Sunset Rider on 26 August, 2016, 05:02:40 AM
*Originally Posted by Josiah [+]
Goods morning

I just thought I'd chip in on this one, if I was a little light fingered and was carrying tools to break into a motorbike top box, I probably would not bother breaking into the top box, I'd nick the bike and it's luggage, nicking bikes ain't rocket science, are we not getting a bit paranoid here.............

Josiah ( still )  :125: ( and perhaps kneeds a koffy or 3 )
I am with Josiah on this one. I have a full givi setup on the VFR in the UK. Having just recently spent 6 weeks on the roads across the UK, France, Spain and Portugal......no one has come anywhere touching my luggage on the bike. I did at times removed the panniers at night , but the top box seldom came off.  I will admit to having my phone(s) stolen on the last day in France....through my own stupidity though. I left one in the phone  holder case and the other on top of the dash while paying for petrol and having a bite to eat before getting to the Tunnel in Calais.
Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: SaturnV on 26 August, 2016, 09:11:38 AM
*Originally Posted by Sunset Rider [+]
I am with Josiah on this one. I have a full givi setup on the VFR in the UK. Having just recently spent 6 weeks on the roads across the UK, France, Spain and Portugal......no one has come anywhere touching my luggage on the bike. I did at times removed the panniers at night , but the top box seldom came off.  I will admit to having my phone(s) stolen on the last day in France....through my own stupidity though. I left one in the phone  holder case and the other on top of the dash while paying for petrol and having a bite to eat before getting to the Tunnel in Calais.

Ouch!  My phone, wallet and keys are the 3 things I keep with me at all times but I realise it's easy to get careless when tired or distracted.  I must admit the reason I'm getting so concerned (paranoid?) about security is due so hearing about several bike thefts recently in London, the latest being my mate who had his BMW S1000RR nicked from outside a restaurant in Shoreditch.  Also when staying at my friends' place in Somerset I came out one morning to find part of the plastic tank-protector broken off and missing so I knew some scally had been tampering with it...
Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: LUCFCB on 26 August, 2016, 10:22:57 AM
only piece of value in my top box is a spare stator  :015:
wallet, phone, keys etc are in the tankbag ... i walk away from my bike -> I take my tankbag ...
Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: Sunset Rider on 27 August, 2016, 04:19:26 AM
As pointed out somewhere above,you have a much higher chance of having the whole bike nicked than just the boxes.Certainly a tank bag may attract a different attention due to the ease of removal (especially the magnetic ones). if you eally want to get paranoid (and don't we all) I saw a couple of guys touring that had a strap (tie me down type) with a keyless padlock....I cant really remember where though. Presumably they did use it when leaving their bikes and touring visiting cities. I also noted similar padlock straps with luggage at airports.

As an aside, I note that you mentioned getting hard luggage when the funds permits. I obtained my Givi V35 and Givi Maxia 55L and relevant rack and rails from this chap in Leigh (north west of Manchester). I can't speak highly enough of him. He filtered through two months of enquiries before I bought my gear. I rode from London to his place one morning and he delivered on all the goods AND fitted the said luggage to my bike while it rain and hailed and the sun shone all in the space of a couple of hours. If you are in need of luggage give him a go.....i certainly dont regret it.

ronald anderson <andersonbaby2000@msn.com>
Cheers
Philippe
Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: Robo on 27 August, 2016, 11:50:59 AM
It would be quicker to THIEF  the bike than to try and unbolt spinning bolts.

If you are really worried about this Have a search on Ebay for shear nuts , they will solve your problem

 :028:
Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: richardcbf on 27 August, 2016, 12:05:21 PM
*Originally Posted by Robo [+]
It would be quicker to THIEF  the bike than to try and unbolt spinning bolts.

If you are really worried about this Have a search on Ebay for shear nuts , they will solve your problem

 :028:
The disadvantage of shear nuts is that they're a 'one-way' solution for a 'permanent' fixture in applications where removal of the bolt should never be required.
( https://www.fastenright.com/security-fasteners/shear-nuts-security-breakaway-nuts/so01 )
Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: Robo on 27 August, 2016, 12:17:13 PM
*Originally Posted by richardcbf [+]
The disadvantage of shear nuts is that they're a 'one-way' solution for a 'permanent' fixture in applications where removal of the bolt should never be required.
( https://www.fastenright.com/security-fasteners/shear-nuts-security-breakaway-nuts/so01 )


Correct but they can be undone if you know how, but not as easy to remove as a nut.
 
Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: raYzerman on 13 May, 2019, 07:13:16 PM
Even this is an old thread, I'll chime in by saying..... if you lose the keys to your Givi box, just drive out the hinge pins.   :015:
Title: Re: Givi Topbox Security Loophole
Post by: Pan404 on 14 May, 2019, 10:49:38 AM
*Originally Posted by raYzerman [+]
Even this is an old thread, I'll chime in by saying..... if you lose the keys to your Givi box, just drive out the hinge pins.   :015:

That's a 10 second job each side, I did it recently to respray my box. I couldn't believe how easy it was.