CBF1000

CBF1000 => CBF1000 - General Discussion => Topic started by: RJTaylor1000 on 31 July, 2020, 07:20:20 PM

Title: Emergency chain situation in Norway.
Post by: RJTaylor1000 on 31 July, 2020, 07:20:20 PM
Honda CBF 1000 AF C 2015. Urgent advice sought..
I am in the s@@t a bit. I left Chester Monday heading for Norway. The bike had just had a full ďgold starĒ service a new battery and new back tyre just in case. No suggestion of a new chain being needed.
The service guy had washed the chain clean (no idea what with) It was hammering down all the way across by the time I got there there was a clunking noise coming from the chain and I could feel it through the seat!
I checked the tension itís 25mm free play best case but this tightens to 5mm as you rotate the wheel. The chain must be stretched or worn at one area. My guess is a few of the O rings have  breached the grease was washed out and water got in causing a partial seize of a couple of links. I doused it in lube to get me going which stopped the clunking and the free play seems better at the tightest point. I booked it in for a repair in Norway at Kristiansand but they may not be able to get a chain for a few days. They asked for the VIN No which I gave them so they could get the right chain. I may have to sack them off and keep the chain manually  oiled and watch the slack. No higher speed riding here. If I decide to move up the road another 100 miles if the chain is kept oiled manually is it wise to go on?
I got places booked so a two day potential delay screws me up. I have done 1300km so far after my dreaded discovery. Can anyone give me the Honda part number or specification of the chain. I though all bases had been covered didnít see this one coming..☹️ Thank you John  :150:
Title: Re: Emergency chain situation in Norway.
Post by: g5guzzi on 31 July, 2020, 08:42:07 PM
I think the chain is a 530 and you need 120 links for a mk2.some firms list 114 links and this is incorrect.

honda chain kit 06406-mgj -p01 i think this includes sprockets
 there are 2 chains
4054-mbr-003
4054-mbb-005
If your chain breaks apart from the risk of it causing a crash
it could well smash  the engine/gearbox casing if it wraps round
the gearbox sprocket

Malc


Title: Re: Emergency chain situation in Norway.
Post by: spinspin on 01 August, 2020, 03:40:01 AM
Don't know if this helps but I found these guys have one in stock in Norway. May be worth a call to see if they can post it a couple of days ahead of you, if you think a local bike shop can fit it. Good luck!
https://www.thansen.no/scooter-mc/motorsykkel-og-mx/reservedeler/honda/cbf1000/kjede-drev/kjede/rk-kjede-530so-o-ring-cbf1000/n783783/pn783786/
Title: Re: Emergency chain situation in Norway.
Post by: Art on 01 August, 2020, 07:18:00 AM
First things first adjust the chain an over tight chain will clunk and 5 mm slack is properly over tight, the 20 to 30 mm slack is to allow the swing arm some clunk free movement. Then you may just have some dirt stiffening the links, rain can throw up all manner of debris especially heavy rain after a dry spell. Without a hands on inspection its impossible to tell if the chain is serviceable or not, since it recently had a full "gold star" service (whatever that is) I'd assume the chain would have been inspected and found to be serviceable at that time.

As an on the road repair I'd thoroughly clean the chain with a spray can of brake cleaner and a tooth brush to clean off any road fling inspecting all 120 links of the chain link by link as you clean. Checking there are no seized, partially seized or damaged link plates, rollers, link pins or rings. Adjust the chain slack to 20 mm at the tightest spot with the motorcycle unladen and with both wheels on the ground, taking care to make the measurement at the middle point of the lower chain run between where it leaves the front sprocket and where it joins the rear sprocket. Lubricate the chain on all four sides with a spray on chain wax and If you don't feel confident in doing any of this yourself have a local garage do it for you, choose an independent over a main dealer every time. If the chain has no seized or damaged links and is not stretched beyond it's service limit there is no need to replace it.

If you want to check the overall chain wear do not use the chain wear indicator sticker to assess chain stretch. Measure the chain in several places across 17 link pin centres. Expect 254 mm on a brand new straight out of the box 530 chain and 259 mm (2% stretch) on a worn out chain. Having a 10-15 mm difference between the slackest and tightest spots on a chain is normal, 20 mm is excessive, measure the chain at that slackest point if less than 259 mm between 17 pin centres I'd expect all to be well and good.

Happy Days, enjoy the rest of your tour.
Title: Re: Emergency chain situation in Norway.
Post by: RJTaylor1000 on 01 August, 2020, 09:16:12 AM
I am knocked out by the content here and very much appreciate the effort you put into the reply. I am pretty good with tools and have some with me. I will buy an engineers rule and a spanner for the hub
but. The only thing I will lack is a torque wrench. I was thinking if I put a scratch mark on nut and swing arm and retighten to the same position that will be close enough. Thanks for the tips on cleaning too. Best regards JT
Title: Re: Emergency chain situation in Norway.
Post by: RJTaylor1000 on 01 August, 2020, 09:22:15 AM
Thank you G5 Guzzi very useful 👍
Title: Re: Emergency chain situation in Norway.
Post by: RJTaylor1000 on 01 August, 2020, 09:41:04 AM
Art.. One last question (I hope) I was checking the chain up on the centre stand. To get real adjustment conditions should you be using the side stand to get some weight on both wheels check at different sections by rolling the bike then rechecking till you find the tightest point. I am guessing from what you described the centre stand should not be used.
Thanks Regards JT
Title: Re: Emergency chain situation in Norway.
Post by: Art on 01 August, 2020, 11:55:24 AM
That is correct. Both wheels on the ground unladen. Roll the motorcycle forward about 250mm check for the tight spot, keep repeating the 250 mm forward roll until you find the tightest spot then adjust the chain at that point to 20mm slack (Honda tolerance is 20-30 mm). Where folk go wrong here is in judging where the centre point of the chain run is.

Each to their own on judging 70 lb ft without a torque wrench. In a service situation I always torque the rear axel nut because its a split nut and over tightening can cause the nut to fail. On the road I've have used the onboard tool kit to tighten the rear axel nut. I guestimated the 70 lb ft to be when I can't tighten the nut any further using the 27 mm ring and extension piece with the 22 mm ring in the opposite end. That way you can get about almost a foot of leverage which is not too much less than you'd get using a standard length 27 mm combination spanner.

Giving this a little more thought there is a question of how did the chain tighten to 5 mm? Assuming that at the full "gold service" the chain was adjusted correctly to 20-30 mm the axel and wheel must have been moved back for the chain to tighten up. It could have been be something as innocent as riding over a pot hole or on uneven ground or mounting the kerb especially if you're riding with a pillion and/or luggage.  What you need to rule out is that the rear axel nut has not failed, its a split nut that has compression cuts on opposing sides that cause an interference fit between the threads of the nut and the axel. If the nut spins on freely it has failed, it should require a little more than finger tip force to spin the nut up before giving it the last couple of turns with a socket or spanner to 70 lb ft (95 Nm).
Title: Re: Emergency chain situation in Norway.
Post by: RJTaylor1000 on 01 August, 2020, 02:44:01 PM
I appreciate your time in helping. Just to expand on this, the ďGold ServiceĒ was a full service recommended by Honda for around the 20,000 miles. This he said included valve clearances which he said were all good. A Honda dealer wanted over £600 for the same work I paid £300. I have given up trying to get this done here as no one has a chain in stock. I messaged an English mechanic in Stavanger with the bike details thatís a place I intended to visit on Thursday so fingers crossed he will reply order the chain if needed and fit me in. I bought some chain cleaner and good wet motorbike chain lube. Am going to give it a good clean and lube then check and adjust. I did notice the indicator is just at the green to red mark. I know itís only a guide but new the chain ainít. Am thinking itís the original chain but no way of knowing not in any of the service bills or records.
I am confident I Know how to adjust it in the correct way now. It been very interesting
to get this information.  Thanks Regards JT
Title: Re: Emergency chain situation in Norway.
Post by: Rick on 04 August, 2020, 07:51:15 PM
Out of interest ART, do you know the measurement for the Mk 1 between 17 chain pins, I've just checked mine and its 256mm,
its the original chain and done just about 20 000 miles. Its just at the end of the green according to the sticker and slack is towards 30mm on the side stand. I use EP 90 gear oil to lubricate it. 
Title: Re: Emergency chain situation in Norway.
Post by: Art on 05 August, 2020, 02:57:55 AM
As above

*Originally Posted by Art [+]
...across 17 link pin centres. Expect 254 mm on a brand new straight out of the box 530 chain and 259 mm (2% stretch) on a worn out chain.

The CBF1000's have 530 drive chains, the 5 refers to 5/8" pitch and the 3 to 3/8" width. Therefore 16 links (17 link pins) 16 x 5/8" is bang on 10" x 2.54 is 254 mm. Manufacturers recommend replacement after 1-1.5% stretch, that's around 256-258 mm. Note the chain should be measured under tension, I do this with the bike on the centre stand, selecting 2nd gear and using the rear wheel to put tension in the lower chain run.

At 256 mm your chain is half a mm off that 1% stretch limit, did you measure it under tension? You should plan to replace the chain and sprockets at the next service, Hunters of Newcastle are the go to supplier of the moment and are offering DID Gold X-ring VXGB series chain and JT Sprockets as a kit delivered at £91.62 and that's a higher specification chain than the original Honda chain. Regular maintenance and lubrication with the EP90 gear oil should see almost twice the mileage you got from the original Honda chain.

link here (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DID-Gold-XRing-Chain-and-JT-Sprockets-Kit-Set-For-Honda-CBF1000-2006-to-2010/193338210696?hash=item2d03daf988:g:CXYAAOSw1Txd1XDg)
Title: Re: Emergency chain situation in Norway.
Post by: Art on 05 August, 2020, 11:39:19 AM
Rick just to be clear your chain measured under tension at 256 mm across 17 pins would be about 0.75% stretched. At 20,000 miles and the same rate of wear that gives you about 4,000 miles if you replace at 1% stretch or 8,000 miles if you replace at 1.25% stretch. I replaced my original Honda chain at 1.5% stretch that's 258 mm and was at 26,581 miles, yes I keep a record of all these things.
Title: Re: Emergency chain situation in Norway.
Post by: Rick on 05 August, 2020, 05:01:18 PM
Thankyou for the excellent detailed reply Art, I shall re-check it under tension using the method you suggest. I will look towards replacing it at the end of the year ready for next spring, I only do a relatively low mileage about 2000 miles a year, I nearly always give the chain a soft brush on the inside edge with EP90 before each ride and it seems to keep the chain and sprocket teeth evenly lubricated.     
Title: Re: Emergency chain situation in Norway.
Post by: Rick on 05 August, 2020, 05:48:57 PM
I have just checked my chain again as you suggest above, under tension, and it is 256 mm between the centres of 17 pins.
Title: Re: Emergency chain situation in Norway.
Post by: Art on 05 August, 2020, 09:24:04 PM
Good for a while yet.