Post by: Rachy40 on 03 May, 2016, 10:04:08 PM
Any advice or comments would be appreciated
Post by: Robo on 03 May, 2016, 10:38:40 PM
Post by: alan sh on 03 May, 2016, 10:48:54 PM
Alan
Post by: Rev Ken on 03 May, 2016, 10:54:10 PM
Post by: bazza696 on 04 May, 2016, 08:00:09 AM
I would be more worried if the fan doesn't come on. I'm not sure how the CBF is set up but my Proton Satria GTI fan came in regularly to keep the temperature at a normal level, rather than allowing it to over heat before cutting in, cause being a Malaysian car in a hot country, once it overheated it's hard to get the temperature back down.
Post by: ivor hugh jarse on 04 May, 2016, 08:39:37 AM
Post by: Trance-Elbow on 04 May, 2016, 09:28:56 AM
What has always worried me though, is the lack of temp gauge. How do I know that the "Over Temp" warning light even works?
Post by: Robo on 04 May, 2016, 10:36:33 AM
Or Gloves. :138:
Post by: Trance-Elbow on 04 May, 2016, 11:58:39 AM
Originally Posted by Robo ![[+]](https://www.cbf1000.com/vbicons/viewpostright.png "View Post")
But Robo - Surely you need them behind the radiator as the air entering will only be ambient temperature. If behind, your underpants will benefit from the additional heat generated by the radiator and thus accelerate the drying cycle/time? :164:
Post by: ivor hugh jarse on 04 May, 2016, 12:33:06 PM
Originally Posted by Robo Underpants? plural.... not singular underpant!... you extravagant person - sure you're not a female?
Post by: Stuart Fordyce on 04 May, 2016, 01:08:22 PM
Post by: gingernutz on 04 May, 2016, 09:12:44 PM
Post by: Robo on 04 May, 2016, 10:20:42 PM
:062: you wish :047:
Post by: bazza696 on 05 May, 2016, 11:05:30 AM
Post by: Trance-Elbow on 05 May, 2016, 11:50:09 AM
Originally Posted by Stuart Fordyce In 8 years, I've never seen the temperature light come on. That would worry me greatly!! :005:
Could be thermostat or a weak pump or something. Does the service manual suggest any possible cause's and/or tests to carry out?
Post by: Bifferman on 05 May, 2016, 02:28:43 PM
Originally Posted by Trance-Elbow :0461: It would concern me as well and I wouldn't run the bike until I had sorted it. I have had my bike for 9 years come July and never seen the light come on when riding the bike but the fan does come on early. If fan was coming on without the coolant indicator light then I wouldn't worry at all because this is normal. Coolant light coming on is NOT normal.
Fan comes on so it can't be the wiring connector which has occasionally been an issue for a few (small number). You need to read the MKI Service Manual - search 'Service Manual MKI' and you will find the link. Chapter 7-4 Trouble Shooting. Coolant change (if it has not been changed since 2006, change it with the correct anti freeze), indeed is the coolant level correct. A couple have had to change the thermostat which is located in a housing under the fuel tank - lift tank at front and hinge at rear to access but it is covered in the manual anyway. If you remove the thermostat the manual gives detailed instructions on how to check if it is OK. The thermostat is more likely rather than the pump (you can hear that by putting a screw driver blade on the pump housing and ear to other end), the ECT sensor or the fan control relay which I have never heard of fritzing.
Just sort it, before you run the bike any more. If you can't do the work or prefder not to this is not a major job for a stealer to sort. The most expensive bit will be the coolant additive and try not to get ripped by using Honda's own.
Andy
:149:
p.s. Steam coming from the rad when it has been raining and you come to a stand still is almost always due to there being no drain hole in the lower frame of the radiator. Also happens when you have cleaned the bike and hosed it down so unless you can actually see water pis*ing out of the rad somewhere don't let it concern you.
Post by: Biker Mike on 05 May, 2016, 05:17:10 PM
Originally Posted by Bifferman Post by: Stuart Fordyce on 05 May, 2016, 07:40:29 PM
I have always been a little wary when washing the radiator. I had to replace mine a few years ago, which was an expensive business. I have perhaps been a little gentle with the hosepipe.
The thermostat will be tested when I change the coolant at the 40k service at the end of the month.
Post by: Stuart Fordyce on 05 May, 2016, 07:43:42 PM
Post by: Bifferman on 05 May, 2016, 08:12:13 PM
Originally Posted by Stuart Fordyce There are other instructors on here who ride a MKI and they do NOT have the coolant light coming on. There are also peeps who ride in very much higher temps than we have here and same. It should not come on at all.
Glad you have found one possible cause. Glad you are going to check the thermostat when you have the coolant changed. The coolant which basically a 50:50 mix with distilled water also acts to cool the engine so good that you are having this changed as well.
Sounds as if you are heading in the right direction so hope it all works out fine.
Andy
:149:
Post by: bazza696 on 06 May, 2016, 08:34:24 AM
Originally Posted by Stuart Fordyce If your going to invest in changing your coolant and your riding causes the fan to come on all the time, why not consider investing in a waterless coolant.
I believe the benefits over normal water based coolants, is that it has a lower surface temperature so it will have more surface contact with the internal components and when water based coolants get hot, the liquid in contact with the surface can start to boil and create steam. This causes a void where the liquid is no longer in contact with the engine, and can reduced or offer no further heat transfer, which causes the temperature to rise and starts a viscous circle.
Post by: Stuart Fordyce on 06 May, 2016, 09:06:11 AM
Post by: Trance-Elbow on 06 May, 2016, 11:47:00 AM
There appear to be 3 types of standard ready mixed coolant on the market. These are Blue, Red and Purple. They all seem to be of suitable spec for the Biffer and the only difference I can see is the stated service life and inclusion of something called Organic Acid Technology (OAT). :087:
Does anyone have any recommendation which is best to use and why?
Blue - http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car-accessories/engine-oils-and-car-fluids/antifreeze-and-screenwash/blue-antifreeze/?523770501&0&cc5_865 (http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car-accessories/engine-oils-and-car-fluids/antifreeze-and-screenwash/blue-antifreeze/?523770501&0&cc5_865)
Red - http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car-accessories/engine-oils-and-car-fluids/antifreeze-and-screenwash/red-antifreeze/?523770511&0&cc5_866 (http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car-accessories/engine-oils-and-car-fluids/antifreeze-and-screenwash/red-antifreeze/?523770511&0&cc5_866)
Purple - http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car-accessories/engine-oils-and-car-fluids/antifreeze-and-screenwash/red-antifreeze/?523770521&0&cc5_866 (http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car-accessories/engine-oils-and-car-fluids/antifreeze-and-screenwash/red-antifreeze/?523770521&0&cc5_866)
Post by: Robo on 07 May, 2016, 11:49:49 AM
Originally Posted by Trance-Elbow I use this in all my vehicles, 3 bikes , 2 cars and 1 van.
http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car-accessories/engine-oils-and-car-fluids/antifreeze-and-screenwash/blue-antifreeze/?523770501&0&cc5_865 (http://www.eurocarparts.com/ecp/p/car-accessories/engine-oils-and-car-fluids/antifreeze-and-screenwash/blue-antifreeze/?523770501&0&cc5_865)
I buy it concentrated and mix it 50 /50 with deironized water for my bikes but just mix it with tap water for my 4 wheeled vehicles. Never had a problem with the bikes as I change it yearly, never had a problem with the 4 wheeled vehicles, I just top it up and change it when needed.
Post by: macdoc on 20 May, 2016, 08:39:32 PM
I reallly prefer to see what the temp is approx instead of depending on idjit light.
Post by: Biker Mike on 20 May, 2016, 10:42:10 PM
https://www.cbf1000.com/index.php/topic,20077.msg238590.html#msg238590 (https://www.cbf1000.com/index.php/topic,20077.msg238590.html#msg238590)
Post by: macdoc on 20 May, 2016, 11:46:26 PM
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/71sQ-IBTlhL._SL1500_.jpg)
Think it's useful...worth a try.
Post by: SaturnV on 21 May, 2016, 10:04:44 AM
Only had my bike 1 week and only 150 miles but that's the first thing I noticed! My old CBR F3 it hardly ever comes on (except at traffic lights) but that has a gauge too which barely goes above 'cold' section of dial except when stopped for a few mins.
Yes it's annoying not having a temp gauge - they could've easily fitted one on the left where the HISS warning is with a feed from the ECT sensor. Found a bit in the Haynes manual, Trance-Elbow, about testing the temp warning LED and ECT sensor if you don't have already I can take pics and email you or attach here...
Post by: macdoc on 21 May, 2016, 11:17:37 AM
Going out for 3 weeks on the road so any sort of an engine temp gauge appeals without tapping the electronics. Once I have a baseline reading...from cruising speed to slow traffic...I just need to keep an eye on it. I've never seen the heat sensor light come on but then in bright sunlight I could have missed it.
Suggestions as to were to place the sensor welcome. 8' cable so have some range.
Post by: Robo on 21 May, 2016, 11:28:58 AM
I ride up to 10 hours a day in a little place called LONDON. Where the traffic is gridlocked.
Then other days I'm all over the tiny Island.
The bike runs hot and heats my pies nicely when strapped to the zorts.
The only time the warning light has ever come on was when the water was a bit low in the Radiator due to me not bleeding the system correctly after a water change.
Check out what temp the thermostat opens at and the fan comes on, :028:
Post by: macdoc on 21 May, 2016, 11:46:52 AM
I have a TPMS for the last 4 years as well. Served me well even tho the only flat ( since plugged and solid ) showed up in the driveway.
Buddies Burgman 650 ...which in 4 years of owning mine had never moved a shred above 3 bars on the temp....started to show above 3 and we were able to get to a spot in the Daintree rainforest where we could figure out what was going on, top up and limp home. A tow from there would have been brutal as it's across a ferry.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=douglas.qld.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/daintree-ferry.jpg)
with some local critters to be concerned about. The crocs pull up and sun right beside the ferry launch.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i106.photobucket.com/albums/m269/macdoc/travel/australia%202012/daintreemindyourfeetCroc.jpg) (http://s106.photobucket.com/user/macdoc/media/travel/australia%202012/daintreemindyourfeetCroc.jpg.html)
Gotta love Aus :015:
Tho moutain region Pennsylvia gives it a run for remote...even the tow driver got lost.
The GPS SAID it was a road.
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i106.photobucket.com/albums/m269/macdoc/Burgmanrockystream.jpg) (http://s106.photobucket.com/user/macdoc/media/Burgmanrockystream.jpg.html)
do I hear banjos?? :110:
Post by: Robo on 21 May, 2016, 11:51:57 AM
Post by: SaturnV on 21 May, 2016, 11:59:01 AM
Post by: Robo on 21 May, 2016, 12:06:29 PM
If I was worried about all the above the temp ain't the problem :087:
The fan is, I'd wire a switch inline to over ride the fan's relay.
It's the fan that will pack up first. WTF is a gauge going to do :435: tell you what gear you're in
:084:
Post by: richardcbf on 21 May, 2016, 12:11:57 PM
Originally Posted by macdoc Post by: Robo on 21 May, 2016, 12:15:12 PM
Originally Posted by richardcbf Next thread . I'm fitting a fuel gauge light, indicator :495:
Post by: macdoc on 21 May, 2016, 01:29:14 PM
I ride remotely as against who ever mentioned London ....the pics are fun and emphasize that and that is exactly where we ran in an overheating problem on the Burgman ....so yeah ....there is a point. Had we continued much futher north it would have escalated into a very costly experience.
If you don't have something cogent to add then refrain from commenting. There is one pointless post in the thread and you made it. If you don't understand then too bad. Richard gets exactly what I'm after..
You outlined exactly what I wanted ....a reference point I can refer to and I was thinking upper hose as well for easy access. Foil tape a good idea and we have some thermal paste around for processors.
Meanwhile it's a lovely long weekend, full day riding the backroads coming up and I''ll just have to deal with the temperature angst for another week. :015:
Listening for a fan or not is useless - I ride with noise suppression and want a visual indicator.
Post by: Robo on 21 May, 2016, 01:59:57 PM
Originally Posted by macdoc Still pointless
Post by: gedspeed on 21 May, 2016, 02:20:35 PM
Originally Posted by richardcbf The top hose is not a good point to check the temperature overall, if the thermostat fails then the coolant will not flow through the top hose, temperature reading will be distorted.
Best is probe fitted near th water jacket on the head.
Ged
Post by: Robo on 21 May, 2016, 02:36:26 PM
Originally Posted by gedspeed :0461: but who will dare to fit that, this takes more than sticky tape to fit.
It still will only give you a reading, the fan cools the engine, so Like I said but I've been told its pointless , fitting a toggle switch to activate the fan would do better.How many CBF's suffer from over heating :260:
:028:
Post by: Bifferman on 21 May, 2016, 03:07:03 PM
Originally Posted by Robo Errrrrr, don't know Gov .................... I guess only those who's fan has misbehaved :015:. I remember the first case of overheating on here, it was years ago and (I think) it was a loose wire to the fan after someones bike had been in for a service. A quick reconnection and all was well again. Has there not been someone in the last year or so who had a thermostat that needed replacing. All pretty rare though.
Post by: richardcbf on 22 May, 2016, 10:56:16 PM
Originally Posted by gedspeed Post by: SaturnV on 23 May, 2016, 10:10:02 AM
On any liquid cooled vehicle (most of my experience over the years is on cars so far) there are various components in the system that are potential points of failure; e.g. radiator, fan, thermostat, water pump etc., coolant itself and hoses / watertight / airtight connections. If you experience a sudden loss of coolant or de-pressurisation of the system that could also prove catastrophic to the engine and the sensors / gauges may not help much either as they work better at reading water temp not air...
Finally, people are concerned about the lack of coolant temp gauge and the possibility of the warning LED failing but nobody has warned about the possibility of the OIL pressure LED or sensor failing: not enough oil circulation to lubricate / cool an engine is an equally worrying situation... Should we all fit oil pressure gauges too?!
Post by: gedspeed on 24 May, 2016, 08:20:20 PM
Originally Posted by SaturnV There could be a built in engine cut out if temp gets too high or loss of oil pressure, if there isn't there should be.!
Ged
Post by: SaturnV on 24 May, 2016, 10:02:05 PM
True Ged, just as there is a built in cut-out for excess engine speed, i.e. red zone of rev counter...
Unfortunately that's not the case, according to the manual but others may be able to correct that assumption?
Tim
Post by: jm2 on 25 May, 2016, 12:15:21 PM
The only real issue is that it goes untested so confidence is low.
Post by: Robo on 25 May, 2016, 12:21:34 PM
Originally Posted by gedspeed :mfrlol: I can tell you that my fan got stuck ,something I did. the bike over heats and boils over via the expansion tank.sounded like a steam pressure cooker on the boil, there is nothing to shut the system down apart from you.
I had just completed the bikes rebuild and was sitting beside it wondering why the bike was overheating + fan rubbing on radiator:028:
Post by: gedspeed on 25 May, 2016, 05:03:09 PM
Originally Posted by Robo Why the water is boiling the engine is still losing heat, when it's out of water it won't.
Ged
Post by: bazza696 on 26 May, 2016, 01:12:35 PM
Post by: illmor on 26 May, 2016, 05:25:10 PM
Post by: stergios on 02 June, 2016, 05:43:54 PM
as i work at a hella gutmann diagnostic (for bikes also) dealer so i have one and can check at what temp the fan engages for some more info.
for my everyday use i already ordered this
http://www.trailtech.net/722-ef6 (http://www.trailtech.net/722-ef6)
so far its the best way of getting that temp reading with no holes ,cutting etc .
it fits in the rad fins watch the installation video.
http://www.youtube.com/user/trailtechinc/videos?sort=dd&view=0&shelf_id=1 (http://www.youtube.com/user/trailtechinc/videos?sort=dd&view=0&shelf_id=1)
and regarding the diagnostic tool i can make a vid showing at what temp the fan comes on and where it stops .
Post by: SaturnV on 02 June, 2016, 06:34:16 PM
Be interested to see what results you get regarding running temp variation / range of values...
Post by: oznerol on 16 June, 2016, 01:47:39 AM
Post by: J-man on 16 June, 2016, 08:20:32 AM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-blue-led-200-to-450-PT100-Platinum-Resister-Temperature-temp-Sensor-B-/300964146047?hash=item4612dc6b7f:g:00MAAOxyWiRSMNto (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-blue-led-200-to-450-PT100-Platinum-Resister-Temperature-temp-Sensor-B-/300964146047?hash=item4612dc6b7f:g:00MAAOxyWiRSMNto)
(https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i.ebayimg.com/images/g/00MAAOxyWiRSMNto/s-l500.jpg)
12 dollarzz
There are more of that kind on E of Bay
Post by: stergios on 04 March, 2018, 02:21:10 PM
while on the road trashing it or not anything above 4000rpm keeps it between 75c to 85c
stop for a second or two temperatures reach 99,9 faster than ....well you get the idea. At 100c is where fan kicks in.... sloooowly bringing temp down due to the tiny radiator honda decided to use.
Perfect bike for traveling just dont stop... or be in a place that its warm....
the brand used si RUNLEADER from aliexpress and i used it with the sensor rl-ts003 that goes in the radiator fins for optimal results (if you own a motocross its pretty common to see such temp gauses). It claims its waterproof.... its not but it can show voltage, time ,and temp. You can adjust and alarm at a preset temperature .
Post by: SaturnV on 04 March, 2018, 04:38:19 PM
Better late than never as the saying goes :001:
May I ask what the power switches are on the left and right? I guess running lights but could be wrong...
Post by: stergios on 04 March, 2018, 09:03:16 PM
for now its a backup switch :)
Post by: SaturnV on 04 March, 2018, 09:50:47 PM
Post by: MohKraats on 07 January, 2020, 06:59:57 AM
The fan kicks in just above 100 Degrees C (my case 105)
Checking the system quick and dirty, but simple:
- Start the bike when cold
- Feel with your hand the temperature of the engine, and the temp of the top hose going to the radiator.
- The top hose must remain kind of cold, till the engine gets hot. (thermostat closed)
- Then at some point suddenly you feel the top hose getting hot (thermostat opens)
- A while later the fan kicks in, and must shut down again too after not to long.
- There should be no warning lights during all this.
Doing it more properly, I advise to install a temperature meter, with a sensor in the hose that goes up to the thermostat.
Like e.g. from https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32872167117.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4djpFTtC
(don't bother to try the sensor in the oil drain plug, since that plug is located at the front of the engine and very much influenced by wind and spray)