CBF1000

CBF1000 => Lighting, Electrical, and Wiring => Topic started by: FireBladerDk on 06 October, 2013, 05:23:13 PM

Title: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: FireBladerDk on 06 October, 2013, 05:23:13 PM
The starter switch - which is part of the right handlebar switch unit - was faulty on my bike and intermittently  failed to reengage 12 Volt power to the headlights after starting the engine.

This is quite a dangerous failure, because you will often not notice the error and hence drive without headlights on!  :005:

The power to the pass switch on the left handlebar is routed via different circuitry, so it still worked correctly.

Pulling the starter switch button outwards could reengage 12 Volt to the headlights, so it was possible for me to continue using the bike until I could get a new switch unit from the Honda dealer.

The starter switch is unfortunately not exchangeable as a separate item - you have to replace the entire right handlebar switch unit, so the cost runs pretty high, considering it is such a simple fault. And it is not possible to get access to the inside of the starter switch, so you can not clean the contact surfaces.  :232:

I replaced the faulty switch unit with the new one and headlights are now OK again. I'm now writing a Do It Yourself article about this for www.fireblader.dk (http://www.fireblader.dk) - it will be uploaded soon.
 :800:       
Link to the article  (added october 13th): http://www.fireblader.dk/i_files/cbf1000electrical/handlebar_switch/hsr01.htm (http://www.fireblader.dk/i_files/cbf1000electrical/handlebar_switch/hsr01.htm)

I would like to know how common this problem is - so how may of you dear members in this forum have experienced this failure?

 :041:  ... Fred
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: Westy on 06 October, 2013, 07:49:39 PM
I've experienced it. Used to happen a lot after I'd cleaned the bike. I found a few earlier posts on here and found it a fairly common problem. I opened the right hand switch unit up and gave it a liberal squirt of electrical cleaner that I found in my shed. Not had a problem since. It's been good for a good 6 months so far, touch wood.
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: Bifferman on 06 October, 2013, 08:47:41 PM
I do recall a few posts where peeps seem to have suffered this problem but I certainly would not say it was common at all.
 
Fred, you are a wizzo on matters mechanical so look forward to reading another of your technical DIY articles  :028: .  I would also be very interested to hear your view Westy being able to open up the switch and squirt switch cleaner.  It occurred to me that you probably can squirt switch cleaner behind the start switch which might be just enough to do the job.  Your old unit will be off soon so your view will be first hand.
 
Regards
 
Andy
 :149:
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: FireBladerDk on 06 October, 2013, 11:29:18 PM
I tried a couple of times to cure the problem with switch cleaner sprayed into the starter switch from the button side, but it did not help at all. When opening the switch unit, I discovered that the rear side of the starter switch was completely sealed with some black plastic like compound, sŚ no cleaner would be able to enter there. Hence a completely new swith unit was the only resonable solution I coud see.
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: Nuff on 07 October, 2013, 12:27:10 AM
I've commented many times on this as a problem for CBF1000 users. I've had mine apart a couple of times to clean out but never found anything untoward there.
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: Bifferman on 07 October, 2013, 07:49:39 AM
Fred, given your thoroughness with explanations  you probably already have this covered but just in case not, would it be possible to include a pic of the inside of the switch and the problems you encountered which led to to seeking a replacement switch rather than attempting a repair.  We can then see what we are up against - a picture says a thousand words.
 
Thanks
 
Andy
 :149:
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: Westy on 07 October, 2013, 08:33:39 PM
Never taken mine apart. Partly cos I'm lazy, partly cos I was scared of bits flying everywhere if I did take it apart but mainly cos I haven't had a problem since liberally applying electrical cleaner.
I've said it now so I expect my dip beam will never work again.
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: FireBladerDk on 08 October, 2013, 09:21:00 PM
I have now given the old faulty switch unit an overhaul - dismantled the starter switch, cleaned the contact surfaces and assembled it again.
Quite a difficult job with small items wanting to jump around in the world easily getting lost out there. Not an easy task - and I was even sitting comfortably at the table in my living room with the switch unit completely removed from the bike.
Had it been with the unit hanging in the cables on the steering bar, it would have been even more difficult.

The starter switch now works perfectly when measuring with an ohmmeter, but wether it will work reliably in real use and for how long is impossible to say.

Andy - I'm including pictures and descriptions of how to do this in the DIY article, so readers can choose for themselves how they want to proceed.

Westy - you  will now get extra gymnastic exercises each time you go for a ride - standing up leaning out over the headlights to check correct dip light  :001:

 :041: ... Fred
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: Westy on 10 October, 2013, 09:29:45 PM
Fred..... Tried it. It's impossible. I rely on the reflection off vehicles in front. It's a HID so quite bright.
As well as my fear of the stator packing in, worries about wheel bearings giving up the ghost, I now have the worry of riding with no headlight. Just as well they're such fantastic bikes.......
I'm gonna invest in an old British bike. It's got to be more reliable.
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: FireBladerDk on 11 October, 2013, 03:59:26 PM
Westy - I'm fortunately tall enough to stand up and lean forward to see the headlights.

You must be very short if you can't do that  :150:  :mfrlol:     .... sorry I got carried away   :034:



Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: richardcbf on 11 October, 2013, 04:30:09 PM
*Originally Posted by Westy [+]
Fred..... Tried it. It's impossible. I rely on the reflection off vehicles in front. It's a HID so quite bright.
As well as my fear of the stator packing in, worries about wheel bearings giving up the ghost, I now have the worry of riding with no headlight. Just as well they're such fantastic bikes.......
I'm gonna invest in an old British bike. It's got to be more reliable.

Yeh, even better with a kick start and reserve tank (like my first Honda had) although you might need to carry a more comprehensive (than the basic Honda supplied) tool kit?

 :156:   :008:
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: Bifferman on 11 October, 2013, 04:38:33 PM
*Originally Posted by richardcbf [+]
Yeh, even better with a kick start and reserve tank (like my first Honda had) although you might need to carry a more comprehensive (than the basic Honda supplied) tool kit?

 :156:   :008:

You can blame the Yankeeees for the kickstart disappearing act.  Lazy are they and I don't know when it actually was but probably early 1970's the Yankeees introduced a law in the USofA outlawing kickstarts (they actually beat the beaurocraps in Brussels to this one) on bikes over 650cc and the bike manufacturers kowtowed to the almighty dollar.   This is why Kwak were able to retain their kickstart on their Bonnie lookalike the W650 but it has gone from the W800 :232: .
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: Biker Mike on 11 October, 2013, 04:40:50 PM
*Originally Posted by Bifferman [+]

You can blame the Yankeeees for the kickstart disappearing act.  Lazy are they and I don't know when it actually was but probably early 1970's the Yankeees introduced a law in the USofA outlawing kickstarts (they actually beat the beaurocraps in Brussels to this one) on bikes over 650cc.  This is why Kwak were able to retain their kickstart on their Bonnie lookalike the W650 but it has gone from the W800 :232: .
.and that's from the country where you'll see a lot of 'belt and braces' types.
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: Westy on 11 October, 2013, 07:45:30 PM
Fred,  :431: I seem to have dragged this post  :455: somewhat.
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: FireBladerDk on 12 October, 2013, 08:22:09 PM
*Originally Posted by Westy [+]
Fred,  :431: I seem to have dragged this post  :455: somewhat.

No - westy - you and I have been on-topic discussing how to check starter switch failure while on the run. It's them guis andy-bif and ric who are blazing arround kickstarting other topics   :001:
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: FireBladerDk on 13 October, 2013, 09:53:59 PM
Today I finished the DIY artice: http://www.fireblader.dk/i_files/cbf1000electrical/handlebar_switch/hsr01.htm (http://www.fireblader.dk/i_files/cbf1000electrical/handlebar_switch/hsr01.htm)

As usual I welcome all comments, erratas and suggestions for the article in this thread.

 :041:  ... Fred
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: Nuff on 14 October, 2013, 09:48:20 AM
Looks pretty good there pal. I think there should be a quick diagnostic checklist to confirm it is that problem first though.
Step one, start engine
Step two check lights (dip beam on? Yes - No problem. No - Step three)
Step three engage high beam as if you're on a long dark road (ie not flashing) (high beam on? Yes - Check/replace dip bulb No - Step four)
Step four try to "flash" high beam (high beam? No - unlucky check/replace both bulbs Yes, dismantle/repair handlebar start switch)
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: FireBladerDk on 14 October, 2013, 07:48:49 PM
Nuff - thank you for input!  :152:

I have now included a checklist in the DIY article as you suggested.
This should make it very easy to diagnose the fault.

 :041: ... Fred
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: NeiljohnUK on 04 March, 2014, 05:16:56 PM
Hummm, where have I seen this before, I know on my Land-Rover, where a sliding contact bar moves across the studs and with use and load everything slowly degenerates until it gets high enough resistance either not to work of to melt and never work again.

The answer on the Landy is to fit load carrying relays, perhaps the low/dip beam load should be carried that way?

The switch gear is a modified version of my nipper Deauville's switch gear, where you have the option NOT to turn the lights on, something which I prefer when riding with the sun behind me, I see another potential mod here!
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: vodkashot on 24 February, 2016, 12:43:20 PM
@FireBladerDk . Thanks for the DYI article. I will try to get it fixed this weekend.
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: FireBladerDk on 24 February, 2016, 09:58:05 PM
Thanks Vodkashot and good luck with the repair. Are you replacing the switch as I did?
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: vodkashot on 25 February, 2016, 10:52:57 AM
I will be attempting repair. If it does not go to plan then I will have to bleed money :232: & purchase new assembly.
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: Bifferman on 25 February, 2016, 11:04:52 AM
*Originally Posted by vodkashot [+]
I will be attempting repair. If it does not go to plan then I will have to bleed money :232: & purchase new assembly.

Vodkashot, before you go to a heap of trouble following FirebladerDK excellent DIY programme why not try flushing the switch with switch cleaning fluid (Maplins sell) and then give the innards a squirt of ACF50.  Leave it to dry off and see what happens.  Quite a few have suffered the same issue and have followed this route and whilst certainly not as permanent a repair as Firbladers it does seem to do the trick.  The difficulty you may have is getting the switch cleaning fluid into the switch at the right place but with an areosole can of the stuff I would have thought it is well worth a try first before you start pulling everything apart.

Andy
 :149:
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: vodkashot on 25 February, 2016, 11:17:37 AM
Thanks for suggestion Bifferman. I'll give your method a shot first and see what happens.  Less work well makes me better person (and I tend to swear less).
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: Bifferman on 25 February, 2016, 11:20:49 AM
*Originally Posted by vodkashot [+]
Thanks for suggestion Bifferman. I'll give your method a shot first and see what happens.  Less work well makes me better person (and I tend to swear less).

Quite a few members have done this and reported success.  Need to ask (I might have missed it) Has your light stopped because the switch has flooded or the contacts burned out.  OR, is it the starter that is not turning over ?
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: vodkashot on 25 February, 2016, 11:40:32 AM
The problem is that light switches on for few seconds and then goes off and on again - difficult to predit when it will go down. Any bump on the road can switch it off. Light touch to the switch and it is on again (or off). This indicates to me that switch may be loose or copper connector is covered in gunk and needs cleaning. This is why i'm tempted to take it apart.
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: Bifferman on 25 February, 2016, 12:40:32 PM
*Originally Posted by vodkashot [+]
The problem is that light switches on for few seconds and then goes off and on again - difficult to predit when it will go down. Any bump on the road can switch it off. Light touch to the switch and it is on again (or off). This indicates to me that switch may be loose or copper connector is covered in gunk and needs cleaning. This is why i'm tempted to take it apart.

Do try switch cleaning fluid first (do it several times).  AFAIK the permanent dip is not fed via a relay I gather because it is on all the time whereas the full beam light is through a relay.  Honda's beancounters saving buttons.  If the problem returns even after the switch contacts have been cleaned (either method) and you are 'forced' to let the moths out of your wallet and invest in a new switch I think that would be a good time to insert a relay into the dip beam system as Nieljohn suggests..
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: Nuff on 25 February, 2016, 03:40:40 PM
I'm sure I've taken my switch apart (can't remember if it was preventative or because I suffered the failure) but it wasn't to difficult. Fiddly definitely, but I did it on the road with the whole assembly still attached to the bike with no problem.
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: vodkashot on 04 March, 2016, 10:53:14 AM
*Originally Posted by Bifferman [+]
Do try switch cleaning fluid first (do it several times).  AFAIK the permanent dip is not fed via a relay I gather because it is on all the time whereas the full beam light is through a relay.  Honda's beancounters saving buttons.  If the problem returns even after the switch contacts have been cleaned (either method) and you are 'forced' to let the moths out of your wallet and invest in a new switch I think that would be a good time to insert a relay into the dip beam system as Nieljohn suggests..

Thanks! Getting some positive results with cleanin fluid. Thanks for the support. 
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: FingersL on 23 June, 2016, 02:26:10 PM
Hi Everyone,

I just encountered this problem last night, Headlights were on, started her up, and no headlights after. Thanks to this forum I found this thread, So I'll try the contact clean first and take it from there, as when I start her by applying a downward pressure on the starter switch, the headlights come back on after starting.

From reading this thread, and also from FireBladerDK's Guide (Thanks for the guide BTW), One difference I have noticed about the MK2 is that when pressing the pass button on the left, the high beam does not come on like the Mk1 does(If I understand correctly that the mk1 works like this)

Also, just a note, The Part Number in the guide for the replacement unit is 35130-MFA-D02 (Mk1), When I called the dealer spares and got the part number for mine the part number is 35130-MGJ-D02 (Mk2) at a cost of 1780ZAR (83GBP, 108EUR, using current rates). Did this to see what the worst case scenario would be next month :D

Anyways, Great info on these forums, Will post again If I don't come right.

Cheers

Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: SaturnV on 23 June, 2016, 02:53:19 PM
If the passing switch still worked how about the Full Beam switch?  I imagine that might do but need to check the wiring diagram to be certain... Only asking cos if that happened in daylight I'd use full beam but wouldn't be ideal in my opinion; have a continuous argument going with one mate who insists all bikers should be on full-beam headlights all the time but I assume he doesn't at night and surely that's illegal not to mention dangerous too by dazzling oncoming traffic?!

Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: FingersL on 28 June, 2016, 09:28:46 AM
Hi Guy's,

Just a bit of feedback, Got a can of good quality Contact Cleaner, and Liberally sprayed the starter switch, took forever to dry here as it's winter, but the headlights have not given any trouble since (3 days ago).

So thanks for the advice :D

Ride Safe !!!!
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: georgem on 30 June, 2016, 08:49:20 AM
It just happened to me, too. As I was riding this morning to work, I noticed there's no headlight reflection in the front vehicles. If I press the overtake button, the high beam turns on, otherwise not. I tried to pull back the starter switch, but the lights still remain off. I also checked the fuse before reading the forum and finding this topic, and the fuse is ok.
I will try in week-end to dismount and fix the starter switch, I hope I will be able to do it.
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: FireBladerDk on 30 June, 2016, 04:19:47 PM
Hi georgem,

I consider this headlight problem to be a safety issue, so every day I start riding, I stand up and lean out front to verify that the light is indeed on.

There are many who has successfully been able to clean the right handle starter switch with cleaning spray fluid. This did not work for me, so I replaced the entire right hand switch assembly.
Later I also - just for the sport of it - unmounted, disassembled and cleaned the inside of the starter switch, but found it to be quite delicate with lots of small parts wanting to go everywhere into the world. I now have this as spare part.

Enjoy the work  :164:

 :041: ... Fred
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: Bifferman on 30 June, 2016, 05:33:23 PM
*Originally Posted by FireBladerDk [+]
Hi georgem,

I consider this headlight problem to be a safety issue, so every day I start riding, I stand up and lean out front to verify that the light is indeed on.

There are many who has successfully been able to clean the right handle starter switch with cleaning spray fluid. This did not work for me, so I replaced the entire right hand switch assembly.
Later I also - just for the sport of it - unmounted, disassembled and cleaned the inside of the starter switch, but found it to be quite delicate with lots of small parts wanting to go everywhere into the world. I now have this as spare part.

Enjoy the work  :164:

 :041: ... Fred

Fred, I also check my lights on each adventure as well as sit for 15 seconds contemplating 'safety'.  A shot of switch cleaning fluid followed by a sparing squirt of ACF50 does seem to do it for most of us (so far).  I hope that your most excellent article in the tech section never has to be used BUT if it does then :020: for giving us your usual detailed insight, so much better than the Honka workshop manual.

Andy
 :149:

p.s.  Don't stop writing your brilliant DIY articles or keeping them from the Brexiteering Brits. 

It has been as much of a shock here as it may have been for you lot on the mainland continent but I trust we can all put that incredibly vindictive Junker back in his box while we all get down do doing something sensible for our mutual benefit. 

Just as an aside, maybe the Brexit is just the kick in the arse that the whole EU needed especially after the IMHO disgraceful treatment by Herr Schauble of the Greek people that any thinking person would realise don't have a cat in hells chance of repaying all their debt - and what then for the euro :027: et-all.
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: alan sh on 30 June, 2016, 07:00:44 PM
Maybe we need a way of bypassing the starter switch if it's that delicate.
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: FireBladerDk on 30 June, 2016, 07:59:43 PM
*Originally Posted by Bifferman [+]
...  so much better than the Honka workshop manual ...
... Don't stop writing your brilliant DIY articles or keeping them from the Brexiteering Brits. 
It has been as much of a shock here as it may have been for you lot on the mainland continent but I trust we can all put that incredibly vindictive Junker back in his box while we all get down do doing something sensible for our mutual benefit. 

Just as an aside, maybe the Brexit is just the kick in the arse that the whole EU needed especially after the IMHO disgraceful treatment by Herr Schauble of the Greek people that any thinking person would realise don't have a cat in hells chance of repaying all their debt - and what then for the euro :027: et-all.

Andy - I'm blushing by your nice words  :034: - and I simply love all you Brits for your curage in leaving EU. I'm convinced you will have success and if not I will start buying British shares and British Pounds to support you!
And don't get me started on what I think about Junker and his anti-democratic Union
  :232: :233: :178:  :172: :039:
We are many many Danes working actively to also get out and to join you.
 :039: :076: :105:
If you want to see some of this, then find me on FaceBook as "Freddy Jacobsen".

As for the articles I'm still waiting to find time to write about the front shockes overhaul and head bearrings replacement that I have don on my Biffer.

 :041: ... Fred

Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: FireBladerDk on 30 June, 2016, 10:33:19 PM
*Originally Posted by alan sh [+]
Maybe we need a way of bypassing the starter switch if it's that delicate.

Alan - just bypassing the starter switch would off course keep the headlight on, but it would mean that when starting the engine, the battery would be loaded also with the current for the headlight. But we really want all the 'juice' to go to the starter.

Using a relay triggered by the voltage to the starter could be another way to turn off the headlight while starting. But it would probably have to be a 6 Volt relay, as the battery voltage may drop well below 12 Volt while starting, if the battery is a little tired.
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: richardcbf on 01 July, 2016, 08:51:17 AM
*Originally Posted by FireBladerDk [+]
..... and I simply love all you Brits for your curage in leaving EU. I'm convinced you will have success and if not I will start buying British shares and British Pounds to support you!
And don't get me started on what I think about Junker and his anti-democratic Union
  :232: :233: :178:  :172: :039:
We are many many Danes working actively to also get out and to join you.
 :039: :076: :105:
If you want to see some of this, then find me on FaceBook as "Freddy Jacobsen".

As for the articles I'm still waiting to find time to write about the front shockes overhaul and head bearrings replacement that I have don on my Biffer.

 :041: ... Fred
Stilll  :455:

Danish Minister for European Affairs Nicolai Wammen tells EurActiv - May 2013 Interview....

If Britain leaves the EU, then Denmark is the EU member which is furthest away from the EU core, due to the opt-outs. What role would that be like?

Denmark is the country, among the 10 countries that donít have the euro, which has made the closest connections to the euro countries. This means that we are as close to the core as possible. I would also like to mention that the British prime minister David Cameron has said that his aim with the referendum is that Britain should stay as an EU member and not leave the EU.

Britain has for a long time been one of Denmarkís biggest trading partners and a very close ally. How would that change if Britain left the EU, to only be part of the single market?

I donít expect Britain to leave the EU. And no matter how Britain is linked to the EU after a referendum, Britain will remain an ally, we will remain good friends and we will keep working closely together.
   

The government you represent is faring badly in opinion polls. How is this making it difficult for you as European affairs minister to talk about something which is already unpopular among the voters?

My job as European affairs minister is not affected by opinion polls. The government has a clear and ambitious EU policy. The policy is that Denmark should be as close to the core of the EU as possible, that we should be a constructive country which works closely together with the other 26 and this is our opinion no matter if we have good or bad opinion polls


http://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/interview/danish-minister-we-want-to-be-at-the-eu-s-core/ (http://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/interview/danish-minister-we-want-to-be-at-the-eu-s-core/)

 :465:  See also attached!  :mfrlol:
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: SaturnV on 01 July, 2016, 09:20:39 AM
*Originally Posted by FireBladerDk [+]
Alan - just bypassing the starter switch would off course keep the headlight on, but it would mean that when starting the engine, the battery would be loaded also with the current for the headlight. But we really want all the 'juice' to go to the starter.

Using a relay triggered by the voltage to the starter could be another way to turn off the headlight while starting. But it would probably have to be a 6 Volt relay, as the battery voltage may drop well below 12 Volt while starting, if the battery is a little tired.
:0461:
Or a manual switch for dipped headlights like 'the good old days' before the powers that be decided that riders or drivers couldn't be trusted to make their own choices of turning lights on and off! (Not that I'd ever ride a bike without lights of course but just the principal I'm whingeing about lol)
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: georgem on 01 July, 2016, 09:57:37 AM
I thought about this manual switch, too, but it is just another switch that could also fail.  :084:
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: Bifferman on 01 July, 2016, 10:04:39 AM
*Originally Posted by FireBladerDk [+]
Andy - I'm blushing by your nice words  :034: - and I simply love all you Brits for your curage in leaving EU. I'm convinced you will have success and if not I will start buying British shares and British Pounds to support you!
And don't get me started on what I think about Junker and his anti-democratic Union
  :232: :233: :178:  :172: :039:
We are many many Danes working actively to also get out and to join you.
 :039: :076: :105:
If you want to see some of this, then find me on FaceBook as "Freddy Jacobsen".    I might just look you up on Farkbook (if I can remember my password) and see what is going on in you neck of Europe, as I have said before, interesting times ahead both for the EU and the Brits (including bonnie Scotland).  British political system now in turmoil with more back-stabbing than I have seen since Hessa and Geoff Howe were around and as for the Corbyn, god knows what he is eating for breakfast, certainly neither Shredded Wheat or Weetabix. Maybe there is some truth in the Roswell stories after all :001:.   I have put the Lincolnshire Coast Guard on the look out for more long boats heading our way :008:.. 

As for the articles I'm still waiting to find time to write about the front shockers overhaul and head bearings replacement that I have don on my Biffer.

 :041: ... Fred

Will be replacing my Headstock bearings and fork oil shortly with the assistance of a couple of bottles of Stella and help from another middle aged member on here - looking forward to it Dave, Lesley in the USA on family matrimonial duties so we have the property to ourselves along with the Rt Honerable M R Findlay Esq our friendly feline of great personality who will no doubt be checking up on us from time to time.   

All Balls tapered bearings and only standard fork oil replacement rather than replacement springie things but still an excellent learning experience on the MKI.  As you say, where does one find time to write a report for the tech articles, they take such a long time but anyway I will be taking heaps of pics as a 'Starter for Ten.

Andy
 :149:
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: SaturnV on 01 July, 2016, 10:18:33 AM
*Originally Posted by georgem [+]
I thought about this manual switch, too, but it is just another switch that could also fail.  :084:

True...  And adding a relay is a more complicated type of switch (i.e. power activated) that also could be prone to failure so you're probably better off just replacing or repairing the original switch as suggested
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: SaturnV on 01 July, 2016, 10:20:58 AM
*Originally Posted by Bifferman [+]
Will be replacing my Headstock bearings and fork oil shortly with the assistance of a couple of bottles of Stella and help from another middle aged member on here - looking forward to it Dave, Lesley in the USA on family matrimonial duties so we have the property to ourselves along with the Rt Honerable M R Findlay Esq our friendly feline of great personality who will no doubt be checking up on us from time to time.   

All Balls tapered bearings and only standard fork oil replacement rather than replacement springie things but still an excellent learning experience on the MKI.  As you say, where does one find time to write a report for the tech articles, they take such a long time but anyway I will be taking heaps of pics as a 'Starter for Ten.

Andy
 :149:

Err, would I be out of place saying  :451: in reply?!

Just joining in with the friendly banter lol
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: georgem on 02 July, 2016, 11:33:39 AM
I dismounted the switch assembly to try to clean the switch, but I found a wire that is unsoldered. It seems obvious that this causes the problem, so it seems I'm lucky and it will be an easy fix. I'll try to solder it later today.
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: Biker Mike on 02 July, 2016, 12:03:42 PM
for what it's worth (and by way of a heads up):

Aldi UK are selling gas powered soldering irons on Sunday for £14.99 (or pre-order).

Already have one myself and can attest to their usefulness when there's a lack of electricity to hand.

https://www.aldi.co.uk/gas-powered-mini-seldering-kit/p/052152004497400%20?utm_source=Aldi&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=Product%20Image&utm_campaign=SpecialbuyEmail1stJulyC (https://www.aldi.co.uk/gas-powered-mini-seldering-kit/p/052152004497400%20?utm_source=Aldi&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=Product%20Image&utm_campaign=SpecialbuyEmail1stJulyC)
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: georgem on 02 July, 2016, 06:36:20 PM
I soldered the wire, it was not very difficult. I have headlights again now  :152:
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: FireBladerDk on 02 July, 2016, 10:06:20 PM
Well done georgem!
 :152:
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: SaturnV on 02 July, 2016, 10:56:41 PM
*Originally Posted by georgem [+]
I soldered the wire, it was not very difficult. I have headlights again now  :152:
Nice one  :mfrlol:
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: georgem on 03 July, 2016, 01:25:55 PM
Thanks! I'll be careful next days to see that the soldering is ok and the headlights work. I pulled the wire after soldering it and it seemed well soldered, so I hope it will be fine.
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: J-man on 03 July, 2016, 03:09:35 PM
*Originally Posted by georgem [+]
Thanks! I'll be careful next days to see that the soldering is ok and the headlights work. I pulled the wire after soldering it and it seemed well soldered, so I hope it will be fine.
Hail to solder  :152:
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: SaturnV on 04 July, 2016, 01:55:53 AM
This biking hobby teaches us a lot of new skills! I'm waiting for my stator to fail so I can have fun replacing that lol
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: georgem on 04 July, 2016, 05:57:04 AM
My stator failed last autumn and I replaced it myself with a new one. But that was not that fun, the weather was cold and I had to do it, because I needed to take the bike to a friend's garage next days. But after doing it, seeing that I have about 14V at the battery instead of 12V with the engine running was really  :062:
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: Bifferman on 04 July, 2016, 07:57:19 AM
*Originally Posted by georgem [+]
My stator failed last autumn and I replaced it myself with a new one. But that was not that fun, the weather was cold and I had to do it, because I needed to take the bike to a friend's garage next days. But after doing it, seeing that I have about 14V at the battery instead of 12V with the engine running was really  :062:

Well done George :028: (on both repairs) and  :405:

Andy
 :149:
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: SaturnV on 04 July, 2016, 09:23:55 AM
*Originally Posted by georgem [+]
My stator failed last autumn and I replaced it myself with a new one. But that was not that fun, the weather was cold and I had to do it, because I needed to take the bike to a friend's garage next days. But after doing it, seeing that I have about 14V at the battery instead of 12V with the engine running was really  :062:
Apologies for my sarcasm lol - didn't realise you'd experienced the 'stator thing' too but gld to hear you replaced it successfully  :028:
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: georgem on 04 July, 2016, 09:45:04 AM
No worries. I have a lot of experience at fixing mechanical stuff, I also owned some older cars and I did a lot of repairs on them. The bike seems like a toy compared to them :)
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: SaturnV on 04 July, 2016, 10:03:10 AM
 :062: I've got lots of practice and experience on electro-mechanical stuff (electronic & computer technician and bench repair) hence my lack of fear of such things like fitting heated grips and accessories to bikes - piece of cake lol.

I draw the line at anything inside engines though and the manual mentions special tools required for stator replacement such as 'rotor puller' but others tell me that's not needed...

By the way my fuel consumption over the last 6 weeks (since I've had the bike) is virtually identical to yours i.e. 45mpg over 1100 miles (in old money) of very mixed riding including motorways, towns and country lanes...
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: Bifferman on 04 July, 2016, 12:00:58 PM
*Originally Posted by SaturnV [+]
:062: I've got lots of practice and experience on electro-mechanical stuff (electronic & computer technician and bench repair) hence my lack of fear of such things like fitting heated grips and accessories to bikes - piece of cake lol.

I draw the line at anything inside engines though and the manual mentions special tools required for stator replacement such as 'rotor puller' but others tell me that's not needed... No special tools required to replace the stator.  Flywheel is not removed.

By the way my fuel consumption over the last 6 weeks (since I've had the bike) is virtually identical to yours i.e. 45mpg over 1100 miles (in old money) of very mixed riding including motorways, towns and country lanes...  About the same average as you at 45mpg over 9 years.
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: SaturnV on 04 July, 2016, 12:08:37 PM
Cheers! Keeping a close eye on battery voltage and charging and suspect I may be approaching that sad scenario... Voltage at 4000 rpm plus not really increasing, sits at c.13.8V although coil resistances all within spec at 0.4 ohms. Battery is charging though but on my CBR the volts inrease to 15V at 4-5k rpm...
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: Robo on 04 July, 2016, 08:13:04 PM
*Originally Posted by SaturnV [+]
This biking hobby teaches us a lot of new skills! I'm waiting for my stator to fail so I can have fun replacing that lol


 :104: :104: :104: :183: I need my living room light bulb changed. :183:

 
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: SaturnV on 04 July, 2016, 09:05:43 PM
 :046: Top marks to Robo for almost producing a sine-wave from emoticons  :mfrlol:
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: oomis on 09 August, 2016, 02:01:02 PM
Wanted to contribute to this thread, as my wife's bike (2008 Mk1) started showing the same symptoms on a road trip from Toronto, Canada to the Ozarks in Arkansas.  Not the best place to have problems on a motorcycle that's never been sold in the US.  Seriously, this bike is a rock star when we travel there, but they don't know anything about it and can't find their way around parts...

On the road we found two tricks that worked, sometimes, to restore the headlights when they went down, and they went down seemingly at random.  Sometimes when the bike was being first started up, they wouldn't come on, but sometimes after running fine for a bit the headlight would just cut out.  Since we had miles to make, we found solutions that worked while the wheels were turning and the bike was in motion.

The first solution I wouldn't recommend for a novice rider, and it led to a simpler solution anyway.  The only reason I include it is because sometimes #1 works when #2 didn't, and I don't know why.  It's a full rolling shutdown of the bike while its in motion.  Clutch in, ignition key off, kill switch off, bike still rolling (hey - we had places to go!).  Ignition key on, kill switch on, hit starter button, clutch out, person in lead verifies headlight is on, carry on.

We quickly deduced that it was the starter button that was the key to all this, and found that when we just hit the starter button while the bike was in motion, the headlights were sometimes restored.  Doing so doesn't harm the bike at all - when the motor is already running the starter motor spins, but doesn't actually engage. 

After a couple of days I was able to open up the switch, hit it with contact cleaner and some dielectric grease, but it didn't solve the problem. 

I now have a used right hand switchgear from eBay that I'm going to take apart as per the disassembly instructions before installing it.  I'll keep the forum posted.

On the road, the two solutions didn't work reliably.  Sometimes one would work right away, sometimes one solution would take a couple of tries, sometimes we'd have to try both things. 
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: FireBladerDk on 09 August, 2016, 10:10:57 PM
Good luck with the repair!  :041:
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: georgem on 26 June, 2017, 09:53:22 AM
*Originally Posted by SaturnV [+]
Apologies for my sarcasm lol - didn't realise you'd experienced the 'stator thing' too but gld to hear you replaced it successfully  :028:
The headlights are fine since I fixed them, but I am experiencing the stator problem again...
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: georgem on 20 August, 2018, 06:52:52 PM
I replaced the stator and the rotor this year in june with a complet kit 06311-MFA-309 from here: https://www.kfm-motorraeder.de/cms/original-ersatzteile/honda-motorrad-teile?itemid=06311MFA309
and my problems are gone since them.
But the headlights problem happened again, I noticed today (after 3 weeks of vacation, without motorcycle) on my way from work to home. I suppose it's the same problem, I'll try to fix it in week-end, when I'll also probably mount some Daytona heated grips.
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: repent on 08 April, 2019, 10:52:13 AM
Thanks to everyone that posted on this thread, you've saved me so much time and money it's deeply appreciated.

I had the same starter switch issue, but very slow onset -- the headlight was cutting out for a short while for months but never actually stayed off when I was riding.  Eventually it stayed off, with the full beam only coming on when flashed from the left handlebar.

I sprayed electrical contact cleaner into the ignition switch, and it it poured out black.  Continued until it flowed clear.  Everything seems to be working fine now.
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: SaturnV on 09 April, 2019, 07:02:06 PM
 :062:
glad to hear you sorted it now
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: Shed on 09 April, 2019, 11:31:05 PM
 :495:
The forum works its magic again.  :063:
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: timbig on 04 August, 2019, 03:18:15 PM
It certainly does!

Had this problem intermittently last few months, sprayed contact cleaner in it seemed to cure it temporarily.

But yesterday could not get dip beam at all coming home from work.

have just followed firebladerDKs guide to repair the starter switch, have given all contacts inside a good clean.

working at the moment, will keep you updated.

Many many thanks for the guide FirebladerDK.
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: FireBladerDk on 04 August, 2019, 06:14:47 PM
*Originally Posted by timbig [+]
...

have just followed firebladerDKs guide to repair the starter switch, have given all contacts inside a good clean.

working at the moment, will keep you updated.

Many many thanks for the guide FirebladerDK.

Iím glad that You could use it  :041:
... Fred
Title: Re: Starter switch failure causes loss of head lights!
Post by: timbig on 30 August, 2019, 09:28:34 AM

Another update

nearly a month now and the cleaning has definitely sorted the problem.

 :152: :031: