YE OLDE REG/REC /STATOR FAILURE

[marky99925]

Hi all
After 42000 trouble free miles the dreaded leave the cafe and...click, scenario. I bump started my MK1 but it immediately died, so after a couple of further attempts i called the breakdown guy, he tried his portable starter gadget and he said the battery was only showing 4%, i asked him why it would bump start then die, he immediately said reg/rec, (although he did also immediately say he was cars not bikes).
I rushed out and bought my first multitester and followed Art's excellent rundown of tests, here's the numbers:

Battery fully charged and surface charge cleared   = 12.76v

Standby current drain = .19ma

Battery voltage drop = 12.2 (did drop to 12 with main beam on)

Cold cranking, lowest was =10.5v

Stator output test = 12.2v

So as per Art's guide i am starting to suspect the stator or connections.

The battery is motobatt, 7 years old but religiously kept on optimate 4, after i got home the battery charged as normal but there was a red light on the OM4 for a short time.
There has been no gradual drop off in starting efficiency which is what happend when the battery failed 7 years ago, it was perfect starting all day up to an hour before, then click.
I'm happy to buy whatever components i need just want to make sure  i get the ones that will fix it.

If the opinion from the above is stator i see MandP do them, (as i live in ireland i have only been quoted for original honda at over 300 euro plus vat).
Before i buy anything are the conections known to be an issue?,  i saw in the haynes manual about checking the resistance in the stator wiring connector,(the 3 pin thing) after setting the ohms scale where do the probes go to check this? just against any 2 of the connectors on the stator side in turn?
Any opinions or further reccomendations would be much appreciated.

[Art]

Stator output test 12.2v? I'm assuming here you mean RR output, its the same but different since the RR has regulated and rectified the current, anyway at how many RPM's was that?

Expect 13.5v at 2,500 RPM and less than 15.5v at 5,000 RPM which assumes the battery is fully charged.

It seems you've tested the battery and found it good, tested the charging system and found it wanting. Continue to Test the wiring and finally Test the stator. Its all explained in my earlier post (including the ohms test) at How I Test the Charging System. The idea here is to prove the stator is at fault because poor wiring or a poor connection would give you the same symptoms but the cure is very different and much cheaper than replacing the stator, replacement might be inevitable but at least you would have proven it necessary and can take satisfaction from that.

M&P are a reputable supplier, I replaced my failed stator in 2017 with an ElectroSport stator supplied by M&P at a cost of £95.99 (now £130). Although if I was replacing my stator today I 'd be tempted with a UK stocked Made in China stator at £55 including 3 day it has to be worth a punt

[jm2]

Yup, pull the 3-wire (stator to R/R) plug and test there next.

Stator Test (1) is key:-  any "Y" to chassis (or -ve if the battery is all connected up) must be open circuit ("--" on Ohms) (test the meter leads by shorting together for 0Ω).  Anything to earth shows a coil wire breakdown (stick the meter on 200Ω or 2kΩ range if manual).

It will be this, your 12.2v running is no charging at all (a single-phase down should give something).

42k miles isn't so bad   

[marky99925]

hi guys
Thanks for the response, Art, i was using your post  https://www.cbf1000.com/index.php/topic,22719.msg259352.html#msg259352 where to quote: 'Stator output voltage - Headlamp on high beam, engine at 5,000 RPM check the voltage across the battery terminals. 13.2v (borderline) to 14.2v is OK. If the output voltage is less than 13v suspect the stator, its connections or wiring. If the output voltage is more than 15v suspect a regulator/rectifier fault.'[/color]

This is where i got the 12.2v from.hope ive interpreted the previous post correctly.

I'll go through the new link you provided and plough on with the stator connector test, thanks also for the note on M&P, i know the name well enough from the bike press but cant recall buying anything as i'm marooned in ireland.
Lets hope i get away with the cheap option, but tbh after reading the many posts, like JM2 says, iv'e got off reasonably lightly at 42k
Thanks JM, i found a pretty good youtube video on testing the stator here if anybody wants it:   

[pedro]

I see there's lots of stators for the CBF1000 on Ebay from £50+ and some at over 3 times that price. But are they good? Does anyone know?

[Art]

Originally Posted by pedro

I see there's lots of stators for the CBF1000 on Ebay from £50+ and some at over 3 times that price. But are they good? Does anyone know?

There's lots of £50 stators on ebay for all manner of motorcycles, quads etc. They're probably mostly from the same root source too, I'm not recommending them but at the price I'd certainly give one a try. Product reviews are few and far between of the three reviews I read two complained the wiring grommet was too long and needed trimming (no real big deal). The third complained that the grommet had to be sealed into the casing using a sealant, really, I ignored that because that's just good practice and the 'proper job' way to do it.

[Art]

Stator/RR output voltage at 12.2v suspect the stator, its connections or wiring.

First test the wiring, second test the connections and finally test the stator to prove where the failure is. I've known many to jump straight in and replace the stator and, to be fair, that has sorted their charging issue. However, I remember a lad turning up at my fathers workshops with a 'mystery' charging system failure where the battery was still not charging after he'd first replaced replaced the stator, and then the RR and finally the battery. After testing the charging system the fault was fixed by running a second RR ground cable directly back to the battery negative terminal, just one of a number of instances I've known where charging system components have been needlessly replaced.

[marky99925]

Hi Art
Thanks for this, followed your testing regime to the letter and the 2 issues are 11.75v at idle and virtually no increase in voltage right up to 5000. Also differing readings at 5000rpm on the stator test, all other readings for wiring, continuity etc are within range, so from what i can gather it probably does look like stator. Would you agree? Would welcome your view.
Many thanks to my lovely wife in her pyjamas in the shed for handling the probes while i did the throttle.

[Art]

Well done. Yes, you've proven that the stator has failed, replace it.

Top tip take photographs of the new and old stator alongside each other as well as some photographs of the various stages of work for future reference etc. Back in the day as part of my apprenticeship I had to keep 'day books' where I'd write up notes on different jobs I'd done including any problems encountered and how they were overcome. I wish I'd kept them, sadly after completing my apprenticeship everything apart from my tools gradually disappeared. Digital cameras and more recently mobile phones with high resolution cameras and video capabilities are a complete game changer for 'day books', pictures speak a thousand words.

Apart from the stator you'll need some RTV silicone. My weapon of choice here, despite it being made in the USA, is ARBO red to seal the stator cover and wiring grommet. If you don't like the idea of a red sealant line around the stator cover clear RTV is available.

In the meantime put the battery on an Optimate 4, or whatever your choice of battery charger is, to fully charge the battery.

[Art]

Well done Mrs Marky too. A small pair of crocodile clip jump leads would free Mrs Marky from having to visit the shed to handle your probes, then again...