Author Topic: Cold bike takes long crancking  (Read 3758 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

#70

Offline MohKraats

  • CBF Pro
  • ***
  • Topic Author
  • Posts: 111
  • Bike: CBF1000F
  • City / Town: Almere
  • Country: nl
Re: Cold bike takes long crancking
Reply #70 on: 15 May, 2021, 01:56:28 PM
*Originally Posted by Art [+]
I only replied to the specifics you mentioned in relation to your CBF!

I mention the engine oil and probably should have mentioned the engine oil filter too, because itemised service history appears to be unknown. Contaminated engine oil and/or a clogged oil filter could cause the starter motor to struggle resulting in prolonged cranking, especially when cold not so much when warm.

So the bottom line here is you've deviated from the recommended spark plugs, you've deviated from the recommended pattern of air filter, you've fitted a power commander and had it remapped to compensate for the deviations. All of which may or may not have had some effect on the engine's normal operating temperature and/or the ECT sensor. Now you wonder why, in your opinion, the engine requires extended cranking from cold to fire up.

Euhm, yeah,
Any change could cause anything else.
When you change something, you should be clear about why you do it, and what changes it will cause.

That is also good to mention here.
Never replace a part with an alternative part because it is advertised as "miracle" part, "solves all your problems" "increases the power"
If you don`t understand why it would do those nice things, and what the effect is on the rest of your bike, stay away from it.
To many people are trying to sell "miracle" products, since there are spanners for sale everywhere these days.

And regarding my long cranking,
don`t worry, its just a minor issue for most riders
And I know what causes it.
Now I feel it as a challenge to make a work around.
I already do have a concept in my head that might very well fix it.
Will take some time to realize it though.
If that does do the trick, I will post that.
Till then,
just forget about the long crancking for now.

Greez,
Moh
Last Edit: 15 May, 2021, 01:59:16 PM by MohKraats

#71

Offline MohKraats

  • CBF Pro
  • ***
  • Topic Author
  • Posts: 111
  • Bike: CBF1000F
  • City / Town: Almere
  • Country: nl
Re: Cold bike takes long crancking
Reply #71 on: 15 May, 2021, 02:28:31 PM
By the way Art,

I am jealous of you,
Having a nice cheap plug shop in the UK. (gsparkplugs.com)
Since the Brexit, I pay a lot more before the plugs end up on my desk down here. :005:

Greez,
Moh

#72

Offline Scootyman

  • CBF Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
  • Bike: CBF1000A6
  • City / Town: Dunfermline
  • Country: scotland
Re: Cold bike takes long crancking
Reply #72 on: 15 May, 2021, 03:47:03 PM
I have to say that whilst the CBF has its problems, itís the only ever bike that I have kept for more than two years. Sure I have a grumble about this and that but it does everything I want it to and it does it well.
I actually enjoy working on it too. Despite some of my negative comments in the past, I cannot justify changing it and think I may be sorely disappointed with anything else.

#73

Offline MohKraats

  • CBF Pro
  • ***
  • Topic Author
  • Posts: 111
  • Bike: CBF1000F
  • City / Town: Almere
  • Country: nl
Re: Cold bike takes long crancking
Reply #73 on: 15 May, 2021, 04:23:07 PM
Well Scootyman,

I must say, after having driven some completely different bikes,
The CBF struck me as very easy to handle.
It hardly has any character at all.
Where, hmm, "character" is usually a way to describe a bad habit of a bike.
The more "character", the more a pain to ride.

You won't find a different bike so easy that handles this well.
Most other bikes will have more "character".

Greez,
Moh

#74

Offline Scootyman

  • CBF Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
  • Bike: CBF1000A6
  • City / Town: Dunfermline
  • Country: scotland
Re: Cold bike takes long crancking
Reply #74 on: 15 May, 2021, 08:08:28 PM
To be honest Moh, when Iím riding around the Highlands fully loaded on roads Iím not so familiar with and my partner on the back, Iíd rather not have a bike thatís a pain in the backside or has character as you put it. Itís nice to cruise around effortlessly and besides, Iím probably not the greatest skilled rider in the world so it suits me fine and keeps me out of trouble. I think maybe you should give the CBF some time rather than switch it out for something else thatíll drive you equally as mad. Just a thought.

#75

Offline MohKraats

  • CBF Pro
  • ***
  • Topic Author
  • Posts: 111
  • Bike: CBF1000F
  • City / Town: Almere
  • Country: nl
Re: Cold bike takes long crancking
Reply #75 on: 23 May, 2021, 02:46:42 PM
Hello Guys,

The moment has come.
I am going to trade my CBF in against a different bike.
Still a Honda, though a carburetor bike.

Anyway,
I won`t make the mod on the CBF no more.
But, since there are more people with CBF`s, I want to share my idea on this mod with you.
In case there is someone with electronics skills that would like to give it a go on the discussed starting behaviour,
I will give you my idea how to go about.

From what I have seen, experienced and measured,
It is very likely that a short pulse train on the CKP sensor input will put the ECM in starting mode.
Such pulse needs to be put on the signal input : PIN22 (Yellow wire) on the gray ECM connector.
This with respect to the signal CKP ground on PIN32 (White-Yellow wire) on the black ECM connector.
The speed of the signal needs to be 200HZ (fase length 5ms) and it shall be maximum 12 pulses.
Such thing can be easily realized with a small controller and an OPAMP to create some power to it.
A controller like e.g. the ATTiny85 with an amplifier like e.g. the mcp6142, couple that output with a capacitor onto the CKP signal input.
Challenge here is that while cranking and while the engine is running, the CKP signal must not be interfered with.
Well, this is the concept to start with.
Probably needs the necessary adjustments before it works......

But for an electronics engineer this should not be much of a challenge.

Well that`s it then.
This was my 5 cents.

 :158: :158:

Greez,
Moh
Last Edit: 23 May, 2021, 02:47:17 PM by MohKraats

#76

Offline Scootyman

  • CBF Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
  • Bike: CBF1000A6
  • City / Town: Dunfermline
  • Country: scotland
Re: Cold bike takes long crancking
Reply #76 on: 24 May, 2021, 09:56:16 AM
*Originally Posted by MohKraats [+]
Hello Guys,

The moment has come.
I am going to trade my CBF in against a different bike.
Still a Honda, though a carburetor bike.

Anyway,
I won`t make the mod on the CBF no more.
But, since there are more people with CBF`s, I want to share my idea on this mod with you.
In case there is someone with electronics skills that would like to give it a go on the discussed starting behaviour,
I will give you my idea how to go about.

From what I have seen, experienced and measured,
It is very likely that a short pulse train on the CKP sensor input will put the ECM in starting mode.
Such pulse needs to be put on the signal input : PIN22 (Yellow wire) on the gray ECM connector.
This with respect to the signal CKP ground on PIN32 (White-Yellow wire) on the black ECM connector.
The speed of the signal needs to be 200HZ (fase length 5ms) and it shall be maximum 12 pulses.
Such thing can be easily realized with a small controller and an OPAMP to create some power to it.
A controller like e.g. the ATTiny85 with an amplifier like e.g. the mcp6142, couple that output with a capacitor onto the CKP signal input.
Challenge here is that while cranking and while the engine is running, the CKP signal must not be interfered with.
Well, this is the concept to start with.
Probably needs the necessary adjustments before it works......

But for an electronics engineer this should not be much of a challenge.

Well that`s it then.
This was my 5 cents.

 :158: :158:

Greez,
Moh

Hi Moh,

Good luck with your new bike. I would still maintain that what you are proposing is a complete waste of time and effort to fix a problem that simply isnít there. Just my opinion youíll understand, which is why Iím asking why you are changing the CBF for something less technologically advanced that will no doubt take longer to start come the winter when you say you have the fix to satisfy your Ďproblemí with your current bike.
Iím baffled but good luck anyway and hope to see you back here someday when the carb bike takes three times longer to start in the colder weather  :038:
Best regards
Scoots

#77

Offline MohKraats

  • CBF Pro
  • ***
  • Topic Author
  • Posts: 111
  • Bike: CBF1000F
  • City / Town: Almere
  • Country: nl
Re: Cold bike takes long crancking
Reply #77 on: 24 May, 2021, 10:52:20 AM
Hey Scootyman,

Don`t worry about that.
I have driven different carb bikes, and after some work (bought them second hand) never had any problems starting.
Always kicked in at first stroke, all of them.
And I didn`t make a winter stop.
But anyway, starting was just a minor irritation on the CBF.
I just can`t get the pleasure out of driving I had before.
That said, I didn`t had a four in line before that either...
That might have to do with that too.
I did have a V4 which I was fully in love with, but that one went financial total loss after a crash caused by storm while parked outside. That and some nasty repairs were pending, like the bearing on the outgoing axle. (would need a complete engine dismantling.)
And I had a single cylinder, drove that through a snowy winter (done 3000kms in snow and ice that winter) Found out the salt they put on the roads here when it freezes, completely ruined the bike (front shocks gone, engine heavily corroded)
and recently a very old and run down flat 4 (GL1200)
And even the flat 4 was a load of fun to ride. really a treat.
Its the technical state of the flat 4, I had to let that one go. Just to many costs up ahead to keep it technical road worthy.

But anyway, when I get the other wheels, I will post a picture.

Greez,
Moh
Last Edit: 24 May, 2021, 11:09:35 AM by MohKraats

#78

Offline MohKraats

  • CBF Pro
  • ***
  • Topic Author
  • Posts: 111
  • Bike: CBF1000F
  • City / Town: Almere
  • Country: nl
Re: Cold bike takes long crancking
Reply #78 on: 30 May, 2021, 08:02:14 PM
Well, yesterday finally got my new old wheels.
Its 13 years older then my CBF was, but has not even half the miles on the dial.
And yeah, as in The Netherlands the speed limit is 100 km/h during the day,
and even in Germany more and more streches of their highways are getting speed limits of 130km/h and even lower then that.
So, I was on the look out for a bike that is makes one enjoy riding wthin that speed limit.
I found the CBF not to be that.
So, I went for something completely different.
And yes, comfortable it is indeed.
a genuine cruising bike.
Its an American bike
But still a Honda ....

Well, I won`t quit the forum straight away, just because I don`t have a CBF no more.
Just in case I can be of assistant in one way or another.

Greez,
Moh