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Offline Crispy

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CBF Engine Oil 10W30 vs 10W40 Synthetic vs Mineral
« on: 31 October, 2020, 02:13:51 PM »
I’d like to share my findings about changing my engine oil from 10W40 back to Honda’s recommended 10W30.

It should be noted that motorcycle engine oil is different to car engine oil. Some inexperienced riders rush off to the supermarket to buy oil not knowing that motorcycle oil doesn’t have the friction modifiers found in car oil. The friction modifiers in car oil is used for improved fuel economy.

So Honda recommend that the CBF1000 uses 10W30, known as the viscosity numbers. The “W” stands for “winter”, which relates to how the oil will flow when cold. The second number defines how the oil will flow at normal running temperature. The lower the number, the quicker it will flow.

A lower viscosity will make it easier for the oil to flow through the filter and back to the engine, making cold starts easier. A higher viscosity will put drag on the components meaning less power and more fuel consumption. Ergo, since oil viscosity changes with the ambient temperature, if you live in southern Spain you’d need a higher viscosity, and for colder temperatures like Britain, a lower.




I also had to consider whether to use synthetic or mineral oil. The oil’s viscosity is defined by the size of the molecules. The bigger the molecule, the higher or thicker the viscosity. Mineral oil molecules vary in size, synthetic molecules are identical.





I’ve noticed these differences in my Biffer since changing to 10W30:

1/ No more lumpy cold starts accompanied with a smell of fuel from the exhaust.

2/ More MPG

3/ The ‘ticking’ noise from the top of the engine is noticeably quieter.

4/ More power.

5/ Improved cooling, fan hardly kicks in.

6/ Revs quicker, sounds better.

I used Putoline fully synthetic oil and a K&N hi-flow filter. It’s more expensive, but it not only cools and protects the engine better, it could possibly save me money with improved fuel economy.
« Last Edit: 31 October, 2020, 03:08:29 PM by Crispy »
Soichiro Honda, I salute you.

Offline vinciebhoy

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Re: CBF Engine Oil 10W30 vs 10W40 Synthetic vs Mineral
« Reply #1 on: 31 October, 2020, 02:29:34 PM »
This prompts the question.
Would the stator last a bit longer if 10w30 was used, as oil flow would improve so cooling around the stator would improve?

Offline Crispy

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Re: CBF Engine Oil 10W30 vs 10W40 Synthetic vs Mineral
« Reply #2 on: 31 October, 2020, 02:38:24 PM »
*Originally Posted by vinciebhoy [+]
This prompts the question.
Would the stator last a bit longer if 10w30 was used, as oil flow would improve so cooling around the stator would improve?

I’m not too sure how the oil works with the stator? Gravity would try to force the oil down so maybe a higher viscosity would put more strain on the stator if the oil’s not being put back up to the top of the engine sufficiently?

You have to remember that the CBF engine is based on the revvy 160bhp CBR1000RR Fireblade, detuned and under stressed down to 97bhp, courtesy of lower compression, smaller throttle bodies and different cams.
« Last Edit: 31 October, 2020, 02:56:00 PM by Crispy »
Soichiro Honda, I salute you.

Offline vinciebhoy

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Re: CBF Engine Oil 10W30 vs 10W40 Synthetic vs Mineral
« Reply #3 on: 31 October, 2020, 02:58:13 PM »
I was thinking that 10w30 would flow better, so cooling efficiency would increase.
I think that's what honda improved on the Mark2. I would also say that the UK is borderline on whether you use 10w30 or 10w40 as the temperature in the summer varies so much.

Offline Crispy

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Re: CBF Engine Oil 10W30 vs 10W40 Synthetic vs Mineral
« Reply #4 on: 31 October, 2020, 03:15:16 PM »
That’s my thinking vinciebhoy, the CBF even has a oil cooler. People forget that the oil also acts as a coolant as well as a lubricant.

Soichiro Honda, I salute you.

Online Art

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Re: CBF Engine Oil 10W30 vs 10W40 Synthetic vs Mineral
« Reply #5 on: 31 October, 2020, 04:22:31 PM »
An oil thread  :062:

Some good information there Crispy, just to expand on the Honda recommendation

Honda recommend an engine oil that meets the JASO T903 standard MA with an API classification of SG or higher and a viscosity of 10W-30 and suggest 'Honda four stroke oil or equivalent. Honda also recommend the viscosity of the engine oil should be based on the average atmospheric temperatures in the riding area and gives the following as guidance

5W-30 for temperatures from -15°C to +30°C
10W-30 for temperatures from -10°C to +30°C
10W-40 for temperatures from -5°C to +40°C

With that in mind here in the UK my oil of choice is Motul 5000 10W-40 which is a semi synthetic 4-stroke motorcycle oil that meets JASO T 903 MA2 and API SG/SH/SJ/SL. My oil filter of choice is Hiflofiltro's Hiflo HF204. With Engine oil and filter changes as per the Honda service schedule of 8,000 miles or annually whichever comes first.

I've never really understood the rational behind the annual oil change because its always been my understanding that engine oil has a service life of two years before the additives begin to breakdown. Obviously if your laying a motorcycle up for 4 or 5 months you may want to change the engine oil first to reduce the risk of any internal corrosion.


Offline Crispy

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Re: CBF Engine Oil 10W30 vs 10W40 Synthetic vs Mineral
« Reply #6 on: 31 October, 2020, 05:29:42 PM »
*Originally Posted by Art [+]
I've never really understood the rational behind the annual oil change because its always been my understanding that engine oil has a service life of two years before the additives begin to breakdown. Obviously if your laying a motorcycle up for 4 or 5 months you may want to change the engine oil first to reduce the risk of any internal corrosion.

Hi Art,

They say wear is lessened with a fully synthetic oil which should reduce contamination. Also as the Biffer is fuel injected, there will be less fuel contamination in the oil, if the ignition system is working correctly. I’d be looking to change my oil after 18 months/8,000miles on fully synthetic, as long as I let it warm up and ride it at least once a week, for about an hour.

There’s a company in Germany called Oil Spy that do oil testing kits. Just put a dab of oil on the pad to see what’s happening inside your engine. €16.57 for 26 tests.

https://www.korrosionsschutz-depot.de/wartung/motoroel-analyse/
Soichiro Honda, I salute you.

Offline Rick

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Re: CBF Engine Oil 10W30 vs 10W40 Synthetic vs Mineral
« Reply #7 on: 31 October, 2020, 06:01:55 PM »
Interesting one this, for the above reasons I always use 10w30 Castrol Power 1 Racing, fully synthetic, topped up to maximum with the hope that being thinner and at max level it will give the stator the best chance of cooling. My bike is an 09 Mk 1 coming up to 20,000 miles on the original stator. I ride for at most 1.5 hours before stopping and putting it on the side stand  on mainly twisting bendy roads so in my view the stator has the best chance of cooling. In respect of engine cooling it is the job of the radiator and fan when needed to keep the engine at normal temperature so why would a thicker oil be needed in this country. My Volvo car uses 0W20 oil, this summer it was 37 C in standing traffic, engine temperature remained normal with fan cutting in.

Offline Shed

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Re: CBF Engine Oil 10W30 vs 10W40 Synthetic vs Mineral
« Reply #8 on: 31 October, 2020, 06:52:20 PM »
Oh no, a thread on oil :033:

For those who are actually interested, or are struggling to get to sleep, here is a lovely pdf for you on JASO:

http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV1105.pdf


For the vast, sane, majority of riders, does it say on the label 10w 30, or 10w 40 and for motorcycle use?

Yes?
Then it'll work just fine.

 :053:

Offline Crispy

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Re: CBF Engine Oil 10W30 vs 10W40 Synthetic vs Mineral
« Reply #9 on: 31 October, 2020, 08:56:47 PM »
*Originally Posted by Shed [+]
Oh no, a thread on oil :033:

I’d rather use empirical evidence than folklore. That’s the problem with forums, too much assuming and lots of misunderstanding. But we get there in the end, albeit with needless agro.

Suppose a mix of 10w40 and 10w30, fully synthetic, part synthetic and mineral would all work fine in the engine?  It probably would, but I wouldn’t put it into my engine.

I guess the molecules left over from creating a fully synthetic oil are poured into mineral oil to create semi-synthetic oil and sold to unsuspecting customers to make them think they’re getting a superior oil.

Oil, it really does make the world go round.


Soichiro Honda, I salute you.

 


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