Author [ES] [CA] [PL] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [DK] [NO] [GR] [TR] Topic: Engine struggle to start  (Read 1503 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline alexg

  • CBF Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
  • Bike: CBF1000 ABS-2006
  • City / Town: London
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: Engine struggle to start
« Reply #20 on: 30 October, 2020, 04:45:03 PM »
*Originally Posted by vinciebhoy [+]
Hi Alex, have you found a solution to your sluggish starter problem yet?
 :003:
Not yet, it was very busy week, i will work on the bike on the week end.
My plan for now, setup everything as it was when it was working. So i will take out judder springs out, to see if they were fitted correct way around.
After that would have to take starter motor out, to see if there is any problem.

Will keep you all updated.

Offline vinciebhoy

  • CBF Member
  • **
  • Posts: 45
  • Bike: CBF1000A-8
  • City / Town: Paisley
  • Country: Scotland
Re: Engine struggle to start
« Reply #21 on: 30 October, 2020, 06:10:38 PM »
I would defo try bridging out the engine earth first by putting a jump lead from the battery negative to the engine, if that doesn't work try this but be careful, make sure the bike is in neutral on the centre stand and put a jump lead on the battery positive then touch it onto the starter main feed, this will bridge out the starter relay switch.

Online Art

  • CBF Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1080
  • Bike: SC58 CBF1000 A-6
  • City / Town: Shoreditch
  • Country: England
Re: Engine struggle to start
« Reply #22 on: 31 October, 2020, 01:39:04 AM »
Jumper leads are a bad idea and the method described above does not test the connection all the way to the starter motor terminals so it is an incomplete check.

Remove the air filter box to get access and use a multimeter to test the voltage drop at the starter motor terminals before removing the starter motor. Select the 20v DC range on the multimeter, connect the black probe to the battery negative terminal, connect the red probe to the starter motor ground terminal and switch the ignition on. The lower the voltage drop the better, expect a reading of 0.2v or less. If greater than 0.2v suspect a poor connection. Disconnect, clean, check and tighten all terminals, connections and ground points.

The positive side is similar but more tricky since you need to have power in the starter motor cable. Connect the red probe to the battery positive terminal, connect the black probe to the starter motor positive cable terminal, switch on the ignition, apply full throttle to isolate the fuel system and press the starter button. Again the lower the voltage drop the better, expect a reading of 0.2v or less. If greater than 0.2v suspect a poor connection. Disconnect, clean, check and tighten all terminals, connections and the main 30A fuse.




Offline alexg

  • CBF Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
  • Bike: CBF1000 ABS-2006
  • City / Town: London
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: Engine struggle to start
« Reply #23 on: 31 October, 2020, 09:35:18 AM »
I solved my starting now.

Thank you all for your great sugestions.

The issue was the judder spring fitted in wrong way around.
It was fitted like so / i put it like this \ and it solve the problem.

Offline vinciebhoy

  • CBF Member
  • **
  • Posts: 45
  • Bike: CBF1000A-8
  • City / Town: Paisley
  • Country: Scotland
Re: Engine struggle to start
« Reply #24 on: 31 October, 2020, 10:51:33 AM »
Well done Alex, good spot, turned out to be a mechanical fault after all.  :028: You can now let the Biffer put a smile on your face again.  :001:
Art I worked successfully as an Auto Electrician for 12 years in the day before throw away units, and the method I suggested is the quickest and easiest way to find out where the voltage drop would be if it was an electrical fault in a sluggish starter and not the starter motor. It is 90% going to be on the main line ie Earthing or Main positive feed but could still have been a weak solenoid or relay causing a poor connection on the main feed.
Once you find out what side of the main line it is on then you can use the voltage drop method that you explained which can be a bit daunting for a novice in electrics.
« Last Edit: 31 October, 2020, 10:52:21 AM by vinciebhoy »

Online Art

  • CBF Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1080
  • Bike: SC58 CBF1000 A-6
  • City / Town: Shoreditch
  • Country: England
Re: Engine struggle to start
« Reply #25 on: 31 October, 2020, 12:00:10 PM »
 Happy Days

:087: I'm struggling to understand how fitting the judder spring back to front would add any extra load to the starter motor.

Not convinced by your "\ " that the judder spring is now fitted correctly. The judder spring should be fitted inside the first friction ring with its outer edge raised and facing out. If a picture is worth a thousand words a video is worth a sneak peek...


vinciebhoy - Back in the day at one time or another we all jumped starter motors with the likes of a big old bent up screwdriver, that didn't make it right. I stand by testing the cable/connection voltage drop with a multimeter connected between the battery terminal and the starter motor terminal for three good reasons - It tests the complete connection, it provides a meaningful test result and it is easier to get the smaller multimeter test leads on to the terminals vs the bulk of an 80 to 100A battery jumper cable. Its a fair point some may find using a multimeter a bit daunting. If that is the case it's a hurdle that must be overcome which is why I explained the method in such detail.

Offline vinciebhoy

  • CBF Member
  • **
  • Posts: 45
  • Bike: CBF1000A-8
  • City / Town: Paisley
  • Country: Scotland
Re: Engine struggle to start
« Reply #26 on: 31 October, 2020, 12:20:40 PM »
Art, I don't disagree with your electrical fault finding methods but what I said is the quickest and easiest way to find where the fault would be, then you get down to the detailed approach  :015:

Offline alexg

  • CBF Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
  • Bike: CBF1000 ABS-2006
  • City / Town: London
  • Country: United Kingdom
Re: Engine struggle to start
« Reply #27 on: 31 October, 2020, 12:49:54 PM »
*Originally Posted by Art [+]
Not convinced by your "\ " that the judder spring is now fitted correctly. The judder spring should be fitted inside the first friction ring with its outer edge raised and facing out.

That how spring was fitted inside first frictiong ring, flat washer and judder spring with outer side facing up. :027: like on the video (engine) |/ |||||::  (outside)

I reverse it to make inner side face up. |\  ||||||::
Probably now i did the wrong way around, but it did the job, and bike starting up now.

I dont understand how it did so much difference.

I did test voltage drop on neg and pos cables is was showing dead short on each 0ohm. Connection is good.
 It maybe starter motor brushes are close to the service limit, and this can cause weaker current flow.


Online Art

  • CBF Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 1080
  • Bike: SC58 CBF1000 A-6
  • City / Town: Shoreditch
  • Country: England
Re: Engine struggle to start
« Reply #28 on: 31 October, 2020, 04:28:49 PM »
Happy Days

No worries vinciebhoy, horses for courses, I just prefer one test one test result.

Offline Shed

  • CBF Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 418
  • City / Town: Newcastle
  • Country: UK
Re: Engine struggle to start
« Reply #29 on: 31 October, 2020, 07:10:29 PM »
So basically, you've resolved all your issues by replacing the judder springs that your mechanic took out?  :110: Is that right?  :084: :030:

All that time wasted doing utterly pointless electrical tests, and worrying about mechanical woes?  :172:

Get yourself a new mechanic my friend.  :028:

 


diverse-leafy