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Offline Shed

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Re: Engine struggle to start
« Reply #10 on: 23 October, 2020, 02:08:50 PM »
*Originally Posted by alexg [+]
-I had(and still have) issue with shifting gears, feels like shifting is not smooze and sometimes i don get proper clank when shifting. So service reccomended remove springs. They did that and checked clutch as well. this did not do any difference at all. Clutch is in good shape.

So you had issues with gear selecting before your cowboy mechanic took the clutch springs out? Why would he do that?  :084: :087: :112:
What was the reason given for this?  :027:

As Art has astutely referred to, what's the state of play with your gear linkage? Assuming the other side of the clutch, i.e. from the lever, hose, slave, rod, fluid bled properly etc, was all working, did anyone bother to check the selector linkage before taking springs out? For example, in the pic check out the bolts numbered 15 - if these bolts come loose even by a few turns the smoothness of gear selecting can be effected as the linkage alignment can become wobbly loose. Also check to see if the washers numbered 17 are present, or if they've fallen out at some point, but haven't been replaced. Again, this will effect the alignment of the selector mechanism throwing out your smooth gear change. Was any of this even checked over first? Even now, it's worth checking/servicing the linkage assembly while you're down there.   :028:

That scenario has actually happened to me, with the sudden sloppy gear change just happening to coincide with a clutch bleed. At first I doubted myself and instantly thought I'd bled it poorly, but then thought no I didn't, and sure enough when I checked out the linkage it was ever so slightly loose. The absolute last thing on my mind would have been "Oh, I best remove the clutch springs". Wtf?!  :157:

Anyway, I removed the bolts, cleaned, greased, reinstalled with blue threadlock, job done, Smooth gear change reinstated instantly. Literally a 5 minute job.
This may not be your case at all, but always start with the easy & free stuff!

« Last Edit: 23 October, 2020, 02:20:38 PM by Shed »

Offline Art

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Re: Engine struggle to start
« Reply #11 on: 23 October, 2020, 04:51:42 PM »
For what its worth and I mention this only because it may be a common theme with the SC58 gear change pivot bolt, part 15 in the above diagram.

When my gear change developed a hit and miss engagement and false neutrals became more frequent knowing the clutch operation was good and the engine oil was not the cause I checked the gear linkage. What I found was there was a little play that could be felt in handling the pivot that was not noticeable with a foot gear change. The gear lever pivot bolt had stripped out part of the thread in the aluminium footrest bracket and was literally hanging on by no more than a thread or two. Resolved with a cheap as chips, £7.49 bargain M8 helicoil kit off fleabay. I'm not a fan of the red high strength Loctite 272 but for some applications needs must and I used it to install the helicoil. For refitting the gear change pivot bolt, which needs to be removed from time to time, the blue medium strength Loctite 243 was my weapon of choice.

Offline alexg

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Re: Engine struggle to start
« Reply #12 on: 24 October, 2020, 01:25:24 PM »
I checked all wiring to the starter motor, its all good.
I checked resistance between + and - on the starter motor i get 0.02 ohm. 

I was unable to take starter motor out at this stage.
I definitely need to remove air box first.

To do so i need to buy long Philips screwdriver to undo clamps that holds air box with engine block.

here is youtube link you can hear how is starter motor sounds.

I checked linkages they seems to be fine, there is little play between assembly 14 and washer 17. About 0.5 mm in length. Same play distance on the arm(with screw 12) and engine block. Maybe i will do short video for clearance.


I think at this stage would be easier to check judder spring if they fitted correctly. I guess it would be easier that removing airbox.

Offline Art

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Re: Engine struggle to start
« Reply #13 on: 24 October, 2020, 03:15:02 PM »
That sounds like a battery issue. I remember you said the battery was new but new batteries fail too, did you test the battery for Cold Cranking?

A typical cold cranking test checks the battery's amps while applying an electrical loading, this is not possible using a multimeter but you can check the cold cranking voltage drop which gives a good indication of the condition of the battery under an electrical load.

First check the battery has an initial level of charge greater than 12.5v, if less than 12.5v fully charge the battery before testing the cold cranking. Turn the ignition on, apply full throttle (this disables the Fuel System) crank the engine on the starter motor button for 5 to 10 seconds while checking the voltage across the battery terminals and noting how low the voltage drops. Expect the voltage to drop no lower than 9.5v which is borderline, 10.5v is typical and the nearer to 12v the better. Unfortunately this test is not conclusive and if the voltage drops below 9.5v then either the battery was not fully charged or there is a loose or dirty connection or the battery is at fault.

Don't forget you're dealing with two issues here cranking the engine and changing gear. Keep them separate, they will not be related or connected to a common fault.

Offline alexg

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Re: Engine struggle to start
« Reply #14 on: 24 October, 2020, 06:33:33 PM »
I am trying to keep gears/starting separate. For the timebeing forget about gears, i mentioned that to tell why spring were taken out.
 i need to sort starting up first. That is my main problem.
 On the video above it does sound like the battery, but believe me it is not the battery. I have voltmeter attached to the battery while starting engine and voltage dropped to 9.6v when starting and back up to 12.5 once stopped.
I have to mention again, when i connected car battery starter motor kept making same sound while i was trying for 10-15 seconds to hold start. It did not start after all.

Bike was starting without any issue on cold or hot, before i put back judder springs.  :027:

Offline ivor hugh jarse

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Re: Engine struggle to start
« Reply #15 on: 25 October, 2020, 05:59:56 PM »
a quick way to know if it is, or is not the battery may be to try jump leads - if it cranks over normally with the assistance of another vehicle you may be well on your way to solving it
« Last Edit: 25 October, 2020, 06:00:49 PM by ivor hugh jarse »
Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snake bite..... and furthermore always carry a small snake.   W.C.FIELDS

Offline alexg

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Re: Engine struggle to start
« Reply #16 on: 26 October, 2020, 08:21:22 AM »
*Originally Posted by ivor hugh jarse [+]
may be to try jump leads

I did that before, bike did not started. Did the same as on the video.

Offline Art

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Re: Engine struggle to start
« Reply #17 on: 26 October, 2020, 10:15:14 AM »
Just a thought if it was exactly the same as in the video you may not have had a good connection on the jump leads, they often need a little wiggle on the terminals at all four ends.


Offline vinciebhoy

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Re: Engine struggle to start
« Reply #18 on: 26 October, 2020, 04:04:13 PM »
I had the same fault on a car once, I used a jump lead to go from battery negative straight onto the engine and it worked ok. A faulty earth was the problem.
I have never had to work on the CBF starter before but could be worth checking the earthing points.

Offline vinciebhoy

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Re: Engine struggle to start
« Reply #19 on: 30 October, 2020, 12:44:15 PM »
Hi Alex, have you found a solution to your sluggish starter problem yet?
 :003: