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Offline BigGinger

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Flat battery. Alternator, rectifier or battery?!!
« on: 10 October, 2020, 08:17:48 PM »
I had a 30 mile journey home and just as I pulled on to the drive, with the dash fading and abs light flashing, the bike cut out.

Iíve since charged the battery and had a mechanic test the voltage of the battery when running. 12.8v on idle and 13.4 I think when up to 4000 revs. Iíve ridden to and from work today without the bike dying but it could just be a matter of time?

He was so busy and I couldnít have him do anymore than that this morning. Do you guys have any advice or knowledge that could help? Iíve bought a new battery and a multimeter. I should have both tomorrow. If itís not the battery thatís the issue then Iíll send it back but I donít know how to go about testing the stator and rectifier.
« Last Edit: 10 October, 2020, 09:05:02 PM by BigGinger »

Offline Shed

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Re: Flat battery. Alternator, rectifier or battery?!!
« Reply #1 on: 10 October, 2020, 10:05:09 PM »
Load test your old battery and see what you get, info here:

https://www.cbf1000.com/index.php/topic,22633.msg258720.html#msg258720


Online Art

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Re: Flat battery. Alternator, rectifier or battery?!!
« Reply #2 on: 11 October, 2020, 09:50:50 AM »
The myth is that flashing ABS warning light + flat battery + engine cutting out = failed stator but that's just the myth. The reality is the ABS warning light is flashing a Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) which needs to be retrieved. If its still flashing look carefully and you will see it is probably flashing six long flashes of 1.3 second duration followed by one short flash of half a second duration. This indicates that DTC 61 is present which simple means that the battery level of charge is or was too low for the ABS module to function correctly. Read more about how to read ABS DTC's here

Sound advice from Shed, test the battery to ensure its in good condition and is fully charged and holding 12.5v or more, then you can do a quick charging system output test as follows. With the headlamp on high beam, hazard lights flashing and the engine running at 5,000 RPM the voltage across the battery terminals should be between 13.5v and 14.5v, if the voltage is less than 13v suspect a stator or stator circuit fault, if the voltage is more than 15v the Regulator/Rectifier is faulty.

For more detailed stator and regulator/rectifier testing download and follow these generic guides from ElectroSport

Motorcycle charging system fault finding flow chart

Regulator/rectifier diode testing guide


Offline BigGinger

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Re: Flat battery. Alternator, rectifier or battery?!!
« Reply #3 on: 11 October, 2020, 10:27:09 AM »
Thank you both very much. I should have the new battery and multimeter today so if my current battery is faulty, I could be all set. On the other hand, it could be damaged due to a fault in the charging system. Knowing my luck itís a stator and rectifier and battery. I shall report back.

Offline BigGinger

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Re: Flat battery. Alternator, rectifier or battery?!!
« Reply #4 on: 11 October, 2020, 05:27:02 PM »
So I tested the old and new battery. Same result on each.

Over 13v when the ignition is off. 12.8 when itís on and engine is running. Under 12.8 when dip beam, main beam and hazards are on, and revving to 5k. 13.1 - 13.2v when just dip beam is on and revving to 5k.

Iím not sure what to make of this. Advice please, gentlemen?

Offline Shed

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Re: Flat battery. Alternator, rectifier or battery?!!
« Reply #5 on: 11 October, 2020, 08:59:43 PM »
Your charging voltage of 13.1v - 13.2v seems a bit low to me, this looks more like trickle charging or minimal charging. I'd be expecting more around the 14V mark at 5000rpm for a normal charging rate.

That aside for a moment, what was the result of the load test on the old battery? Have you load tested the new battery?
What is the lowest voltage it dropped to when you first turned over the engine? (Like demonstrated in that video).

A charging voltage to a battery and the actual ability of a battery to hold a charge are two different things. Also, never assume just because the battery is 'new' in a nice shiny new box, it is actually in sound condition. The drop voltage test sets a good baseline for overall battery condition estimation - for both your old & the 'new' battery.

Also, have you done the basics of ensuring all the wiring connections are sound & clean? Block connectors, earth/grounds? Dirty corroded/corroding wires can make all the difference. I'll always start with checking the really easy stuff first!

Art's post has a couple of links for further testing.




« Last Edit: 11 October, 2020, 09:07:58 PM by Shed »

Offline Bikermike1

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Re: Flat battery. Alternator, rectifier or battery?!!
« Reply #6 on: 11 October, 2020, 09:08:07 PM »
Found this link very helpful when I was having charging system problems. https://vfrworld.com/threads/how-to-fix-common-regulator-stator-failures.39277/



Offline BigGinger

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Re: Flat battery. Alternator, rectifier or battery?!!
« Reply #7 on: 11 October, 2020, 09:09:28 PM »
I actually completely skipped the step of testing the battery when turning the engine over. 13.1 - 13.2 is low and Iím not happy with it.

I topped up the new battery on my optimate lithium charger and I didnít get any warning lights. It charged to full within a couple hours.

Iím not inclined to say the stator is knackered and I donít believe the rectifier is dead either. Maybe the stator is beginning to let go. Iím not expert so At this point Iím just frustrated with a lack of an answer as to why it died after an hour of riding.

Electrexworld has a stator for £114 so itís not the end of the world if thatís whatís wrong. I just donít want to waste money on something I donít actually need.

Online Art

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Re: Flat battery. Alternator, rectifier or battery?!!
« Reply #8 on: 11 October, 2020, 10:30:29 PM »
I'm with Shed the charging voltage is a little low, next logical step is to check the charging system wiring. Select the 20v DC range on the multimeter and with the engine idling at 1,200 RPMÖ

Connect the black DMM probe to the battery positive terminal and the red DMM probe to the red output cable of the regulator/rectifier. Expect less than 0.2v. If greater than 0.2v disconnect, clean and check all terminals, connections and fuses in the positive cable from the RR to the battery.

Connect the red DMM probe to the battery negative terminal and the black DMM probe to the green output cable of the regulator/rectifier. Expect less than 0.2v. If greater than 0.2v disconnect, clean and check all terminals, connections and chassis ground points in the negative cable from the RR to the battery. Alternatively you could run a ground cable from the RR (green cable) direct to the battery negative terminal.

Fix any faults and re-test the charging system output again.



Offline BigGinger

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Re: Flat battery. Alternator, rectifier or battery?!!
« Reply #9 on: 11 October, 2020, 11:19:52 PM »
Great advice. Thank you for going into detail. Again, Iíll report back with my findings. Hopefully itís a simple fix.

 


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