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Offline Fernie 66

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Fuel Pump
« on: 26 June, 2020, 12:51:26 AM »
Hello:

I have a 2009 CBF 1000 with 60,000 kilometers.

One year ago I replaced the original Honda fuel pump as it was making a screeching noise.  Though there were no performance issues, I was worried the pump was dying.  On the kind advice of people on this forum, I replaced it with a Quantum fuel pump.  After two months or so, the Quantum pump stated making a similar whining sound (like when it primes).  The whining has become louder and is always present.

I've had my local garage look into it again, where they removed the pump and we tested it in a bath of fuel. It worked fine without any noise or other issue, but when  put back into the tank, the whining returned.  We're all baffled as to what might  be going on.  What are the odds the  Quantum pump is  failing too, is this perhaps a noisy pump??  The vents and filter are clean.  Anyone have a similar problem. 

Just a thought,... I use a large Oxford tank bag that has six strong magnets a fasteners.  Could the magnets have affected the pump??

Many thanks for your help;

Don

Offline spinspin

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Re: Fuel Pump
« Reply #1 on: 26 June, 2020, 07:18:13 PM »
The magnets won't be strong enough to have an effect through the tank unless you're putting power through them as well, of course the best way to find out would be to go on a ride without the tank bag to put your mind at ease. Without being an expert on fuel pumps they pump fuel to a given pressure then stop pumping when its reached, so a leak in between the injector and the pump would cause it to go like crazy, as would a lack of fuel the other side, say you've got a block in a bit of tubing somewhere.

Only other thing that sprang in to my head, is that you could be hitting the resonance frequency of something? I had this problem on a previous bike albeit a different set of circumstances. Rubber washers all the way in that case.

Offline Fernie 66

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Re: Fuel Pump
« Reply #2 on: 26 June, 2020, 10:46:59 PM »
Thank you for your response (spinspin).

I omitted to say I did try minus the tank bag, but  the noise persists , whether idling or under power.  It's so frustrating because we did the procedure twice; out of the tank the pump works  silently , in the tank its noisy. 
The bike continues to perform brilliantly, no hiccups whatsoever, so I'm hoping it is the resonance / frequency thingy you mentioned. 

Be safe, re the Covid 19 virus.

D.




Offline Dcan17

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Re: Fuel Pump
« Reply #3 on: 27 June, 2020, 11:49:10 AM »
Are you sure the filter after the pump is clean? im having similar issues with fuel pump and seem to have traced it to the fuel filter after the pump. have you done a fuel flow test? running the pump into a bucket doesn't generate much stress on the pump but with it attached to fuel rail, the pump load is dramatically increased. The service manual calls for 189mL in 10 seconds.

Offline Fernie 66

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Re: Fuel Pump
« Reply #4 on: 01 August, 2020, 11:06:30 PM »
Hello again;

Thank you all for your advice. I did discuss your suggestion Decan17, that of attaching the pump to  its rail, and re-doing the fuel flow test while under operating pressure, but my mechanic said it would not make a difference (???), and he reassured me the filter was clean.  Faced with no other explanation of the whistling noise coming from the fuel tank, we both hoped it was a resonance issue.   I've been pondering what to do next, and foolishly let it go too long, and the problem has now become terminal (unless it's a new problem).   

While out yesterday on a 300 KM trip, the engine  shut down three times. Luckily it was on small country roads and I was able to coast to a stop safely each time.  Frightening to think what might've happened on a superhighway doing 130.   This happened  without any prior hint, hesitation, nor stuttering. It'd just shut off.  Battery, and electrical were all fine, and though I'm not sure if related, the fuel tank was at half full.  Each time I'd wait 10 - 15  minutes, and it'd start up without any hesitation, only to conk out again a few kilometers down the road.  I got thinking of there being possible crud in the tank, and it clogging the fuel filter, so I filled up the tank hoping to disperse the dirt.  The trick seemed (???)  to have worked and I was able to ride another 60 Ks  making  it home safely.  However, after parking the bike, it would not start again.  Its now been 24 hrs. later, and it stated without any problem, but haven't taken it out.

Do you guys think the pump is giving up and if so, why would it start up again after each rest period, or is dirt clogging the filter. 
Just to recap, this whole problem (if it is the same issue) started over two years ago with a screeching shrill noise emanating from the fuel tank.  We replaced the pump with a Quantum  after market unit, the noise went away for some months, but came back this year; it's now more like a whistle  compared to the original screeching sound.  If we've killed two pumps, what could be the cause, or what are the odds the one year  old Quantum pump was faulty.
I'm now debating whether to go back to my independent mechanic whom I've trusted in the past with other bikes; have they messed up??  Or  or go to a Honda dealer??

Offline Dcan17

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Re: Fuel Pump
« Reply #5 on: 02 August, 2020, 12:00:34 AM »
Sounds like fuel starvation. Pressure and flow are inversely related...pressure is a resistance to flow so if your pump isn't flowing enough unrestricted, it won't flow enough under load 

If you can find a replacement filter, try that. It's the plastic piece the pump delivers into as well as houses the regulator. My pump whined like crazy till I swapped the filter. They are about 300 $us instead of a 1200$ module. Just my 2 cents.

Offline Fernie 66

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Re: Fuel Pump
« Reply #6 on: 02 August, 2020, 01:16:59 PM »

Thanks Dcan17, I'll certainly look into the filter this week.  By the way, I  love your province, B.C.

Offline Dcan17

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Re: Fuel Pump
« Reply #7 on: 02 August, 2020, 06:09:30 PM »
This was my filter at 45k kms. I typically only buy 94 octance from chevron or 91 from shell or chevron. I had 125ml/10secs too.

Offline Fernie 66

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Re: Fuel Pump
« Reply #8 on: 02 August, 2020, 10:41:38 PM »

Thank you again Dcan17.  And here I thought the fuel filter was a small coppery like screen , part of the pump unit.  I think that's what my mechanic showed me.  I know for sure I did not see anything looking like the filter in your picture.  I hope the shop did not mess up; is it possible they are unaware  there's a filter located "after the pump".  I am now rather upset with these guys, as I could've been killed when the motor died on me.  I gave them $550 last month for a complete maintenance;  fluids, filters, plugs, etc., yet could they have missed this critical filter??  I'm seeing them this week and will discuss  the matter and "the filter".  Will keep you informed.

Offline Dcan17

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Re: Fuel Pump
« Reply #9 on: 03 August, 2020, 12:21:50 AM »
Here's the whole unit...

The piece that houses a regulator and pump discharge...

If you make it out this way PM me. I'll show you some of the local spots with some twisties.

Drew

 


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