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Offline motorhead13

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Performance Problem
« on: 23 April, 2020, 04:50:30 PM »
Hi
I recently got my 06 CBF with 21600 miles. I've had and got a few bikes but my first Honda.

On the 2nd ride it seemed to be misfiring as had no power and idled lower than it should, I had to slip the clutch to get going and felt a vibration between my feet. I changed a plug and it semed normal but since then on occasion the FI light stays flashing  and I still don't think its running right.

I start it and the FI light stays flashing, so turn it off and on again and it doesn't come on. Its done this a couple times. Then when riding, around 3-4k it seems to hesitate and stutter as in it accelerates then holts and tries again like something's holding it back slightly like not enough fuel & air getting through. Once a bit higher in the revs its better but seems like its only running at about 80-90%.

Whether this matters, its got Scott oiler. I only mention that as I found an old post on here where they had a performance issue where the problem was a split in the vacum hose in the set up of the oiler, but there problem seemed worse than mine.

Any advice is much appreciated as its a new bike to me. I take it this isn't just a character of the bike?

Thanks

Offline Art

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Re: Performance Problem
« Reply #1 on: 23 April, 2020, 05:57:48 PM »
Did you get it from a dealer or private? If a dealer get them to sort it, if private check what PGM-FI fault code is flashing.

When the PGM-FI engine check lamp is on with the engine idling engage neutral gear and put the side stand down. The PGM-FI lamp will start flashing the active codes. The lamp has two types of flash, a long 1.3 second flash and short half second flash. One long flash equals ten short flashes. For example, when two long flashes are followed by three short flashes, the fault code is 23 (two long flashes equals 20 plus the three short flashes equals 23). If there is more than one fault code the lamp will flash the lowest code first.

The fault codes are

1.    Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor or its circuit malfunction
2.    MAP sensor hose disconnection or poor connection
7.    Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) sensor or its circuit malfunction.
8.    Throttle Position (TP) sensor or its circuit malfunction
9.    Intake Air Temperature (IAT) sensor or its circuit malfunction
11.    Vehicle Speed (VS) sensor or its circuit malfunction
12.    No. 1 Injector or its circuit malfunction
13.    No. 2 Injector or its circuit malfunction
14.    No. 3 Injector or its circuit malfunction
15.    No. 4 Injector or its circuit malfunction
21.    O2 sensor or its circuit malfunction
23.    O2 sensor heater or its circuit malfunction
29.    Idle Air Control Valve (IACV) or its circuit malfunction




Offline motorhead13

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Re: Performance Problem
« Reply #2 on: 27 April, 2020, 10:45:45 AM »
Thanks for that Art, I'll check as soon as I can.

It was from a dealer but I'm in Cardiff and they're in Nottingham and obviously things aren't ideal at the moment and they're not open. I'll try and find out the code and go from there.

Thanks

Offline Art

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Re: Performance Problem
« Reply #3 on: 27 April, 2020, 11:34:09 AM »
Even if the dealer is shut contact them in triplicate (telephone answer machine, email and letter) detailing the date and mileage the problem occurred. Write them a story, chapter and verse to be perfectly clear the fault occurred and was reported inside any warranty or guarantee period.
« Last Edit: 27 April, 2020, 11:37:21 AM by Art »

Offline Scott_rider

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Re: Performance Problem
« Reply #4 on: 27 April, 2020, 11:54:19 AM »
I don't know if this will help but there are a couple of things I would check as the standard bike should pull like a train at those revs and without any hesitation whatsoever...

1). Check the airbox isn't blocked with something like a cloth...that sounds bonkers but it has happened before when a bike's been cleaned. There are 3 screws to take off the airbox cover so it's a really quick job to check.

2). Is the Lambda sensor properly connected to the underside of the exhaust box, just before that connects into the silencers? If it's not then that can confuse the fuel system.

3). Disconnect the battery for a good 10 minutes then reconnect it and start the bike but don't rev the engine, then let it get up to temperature and switch it off at the kill switch, then turn the ignition key off. This should do a basic reset of the ECU.

As I say, these may not help and they are very, very basic checks but it's worth checking them for 15 minutes, imho  :018:

« Last Edit: 27 April, 2020, 11:56:25 AM by Scott_rider »

Offline Art

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Re: Performance Problem
« Reply #5 on: 27 April, 2020, 01:16:35 PM »
Probably useful stuff there Scott_rider but since the engine check lamp is on I think its best we start there and see where the current Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's) lead us. I'm unclear what the re-set procedure you describe does. There is a procedure described in the Honda workshop manual to clear the Engine Control Module (ECM) of any stored DTC's although we don't want to do that just yet as we need to read them first! Whether the workshop manual procedure is a complete factory re-set or whether it just clears the stored DTC's I'm not sure, I would have thought since the procedure clears one part of stored memory it would clear all stored memory back to a factory re-set, but as I said I'm not sure. Anyway...

The workshop manual procedure to clear the ECM of any stored DTC's is

  • With the ignition switched off short the Data Link Connector brown wire and green wire terminals with a jumper wire or paper clip.
  • Turn the ignition on and remove the jumper wire.
  • The PGM-FI engine check lamp will light for approximately 5 seconds, while the lamp lights short the brown and green wires again.
  • When the lamp flashes the stored DTCĺs have been erased.
  • Turn the ignition off and remove the jump wire or paper clip.

I did a couple of dedicated posts on reading and clearing fault codes earlier the links are

How to read Diagnostic Trouble Codes

How to read ABS Problem Codes

 

Offline Scott_rider

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Re: Performance Problem
« Reply #6 on: 27 April, 2020, 02:05:09 PM »
Yes, I agree that there is no point in clearing the codes until they've been read...I didn't think of that  :012:.

Re-setting the ECU the way I described it just clears it's values, so to speak, and then it starts to operate from a zero point of view rather than starting with old values that it's learnt from the engine over a period of time. Not sure if it's worth doing but I've always done it on my bikes when I've had the odd fault or warning light that won't go away. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
« Last Edit: 27 April, 2020, 02:06:13 PM by Scott_rider »

Offline motorhead13

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Re: Performance Problem
« Reply #7 on: 10 May, 2020, 02:20:53 PM »
Thanks for the replies and sorry for the late response.

Just got the code and it flashed 8 times the same length so looks like throttle position sensor.
Anyone had any experience with that? I'd guess that means it won't fuel the engine or respond to the throttle action properly?
Do you think it would be a simple or costly fix?

Offline Art

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Re: Performance Problem
« Reply #8 on: 10 May, 2020, 04:30:45 PM »
There are mixed reviews on replacing the TP sensor might be worth cleaning it but note and photograph its position before disassembling so it can be reassembled exactly as was. No new part available from Honda because it is a factory set up with the balancing of the throttle bodies. Search previous posts there has been much written.

One post I read that may be worth a read is here skip to post 48 onward and follow the other links

Remember this is the internet and there could well be wheat and chaff in there amongst the red herrings.
« Last Edit: 10 May, 2020, 04:34:26 PM by Art »

Offline jm2

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Re: Performance Problem
« Reply #9 on: 11 May, 2020, 11:22:38 PM »
TPS fault on a dealer bike.  Take it back!  It is all do-able but let them in the first instance.

Name the dealer - if on Triumph road they have other branches and a Head Office in the NE you could deal with.
Only do it right - no bodging please.   Keeper of the failed stator list.   John.