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Offline Deak

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Engine wont start
« on: 14 April, 2020, 02:48:16 PM »
Hi I am new to forum, just been out to fill up tank (definitely petrol put in) got a  hundred yards down the road and engine started to sound funny and running lumpy, then cut out now wont start, had to push home which thankfully was no to far. Turning over but wont fire, before this I have never had any problems any ideas.

Online Art

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Re: Engine wont start
« Reply #1 on: 14 April, 2020, 06:12:34 PM »
Since this happened 100 yards after re-fuelling I'd suspect the fuel. That's no to say you've filled it with diesel but I wouldn't rule that out from this distance, you probably didn't get a receipt so nothing to check back on. I'd check what is in the tank it may be that the fuel was contaminated, it wouldn't be the first time.

Does the fuel pump prime when you switch the ignition on?
« Last Edit: 14 April, 2020, 06:13:05 PM by Art »

Offline Deak

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Re: Engine wont start
« Reply #2 on: 14 April, 2020, 06:28:11 PM »
Yes the fuel pump is priming and its definitely not diesel in the tank. I have been reading on this forum and it would appear people have had similar problems which was down to the TPS sensor. When I started the bike before going for petrol I did notice the revs were a lot higher than usual and they stayed that way all the way to the petrol station. After fueling when starting up the revs were normal. After 100yards I had to stop at traffic lights that's when the problems started, started running lumpy then cut out. I know this would lead you to think it is fuel problems but I think it is more than that. Going to test the TPS to see if its faulty, I will keep you informed how it goes, thanks for your input.

Online Art

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Re: Engine wont start
« Reply #3 on: 15 April, 2020, 03:21:02 AM »
It happening 100 yards after re-fuelling led me to suspect the fuel which doesn't have to be diesel it may be contaminated petrol. If you want to focus on the erratic idling, rough idling and engine cutting these are classic symptoms of a failing Idle Air Control (IAC) valve.

Does it start now it has had a rest?

Can you hear the IACV step motor whine when you turn the ignition on?



 

Offline Deak

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Re: Engine wont start
« Reply #4 on: 15 April, 2020, 01:59:25 PM »
I Have drained the petrol tank and put a gallon in from another garage still wont start.
Tries to fire but cuts out. Yes when ignition is on you can hear the pump priming and another noise which I suppose is the IACV. Anyother ideas to point me in the right direction.

Online Art

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Re: Engine wont start
« Reply #5 on: 15 April, 2020, 04:27:26 PM »
You wouldn't normally hear the IACV over the fuel pump priming but if you get your right ear down next to the throttle bodies on the right hand side of the engine, switch the ignition on and you should hear the whining of the IACV stepper motor, its like a fast metallic tapping sound a little shorter in duration than the fuel pump priming. If the IACV whines when turning the ignition on this is generally taken as a sign it is working, the assumption here is that the PGM-FI light is off and there are no stored fault codes. Have you checked for any stored fault codes?

Moving on... When you turn on the ignition is the neutral light on, oil pressure light on, ABS light on, PGM-FI light off, coolant temp light off, HISS light off, Kill switch = RUN?

Have you tried the flooded engine start up procedure? Fully open throttle (ECM cuts off the fuel supply) crank the engine for 5 to 10 seconds, wait 30 seconds, try normal start up  (crank the engine for 5 to 10 seconds with the throttle fully closed). If it still fails to start try again. If it tries to fire up while cranking give it just a little touch of throttle but be aware too much throttle could cause the engine to flood. In some cases the flooded engine start up procedure needs to be tried two or three times.

If it still cranks but no start and there are no stored tell tale fault codes then I'd be checking the spark plugs for a spark.
« Last Edit: 15 April, 2020, 04:29:24 PM by Art »

Offline Deak

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Re: Engine wont start
« Reply #6 on: 15 April, 2020, 05:04:07 PM »
Thanks again for some more ideas, been working on it all day with no luck, I will try your suggestions tomorrow, cant check codes I don't have the software.

Online Art

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Re: Engine wont start
« Reply #7 on: 15 April, 2020, 08:36:13 PM »
You don't need software to read the codes, its mostly in the workshop manual Section 6 FUEL SYSTEM (PGM-FI), page 13 scroll down to "Reading DTC with the MIL" where it describes how to read the codes using the Honda SCS (Service Check Short) connector 070PZ-ZY30100, pattern connectors can be had off eBay. The codes are listed on page 16.

Links

CBF 1000-A FUEL SYSTEM PGM-FI

eBay pattern SCS Connector

Or its possible to read the Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC) by the PGM-FI Engine Check Lamp (MIL) with a jumper wire...

A.   Current Codes - If the PGM-FI engine check lamp is on with the engine idling engage neutral gear and put the side stand down. The PGM-FI lamp will start flashing any active codes.

B.   Stored Codes - If the engine PGM-FI check lamp is off you can read any stored codes as follows

Remove the seats. Locate the Data Link Connector (DLC) a 4P red socket that can be found below the riders seat bracket between the ABS modulator and main fuse box. It is covered by a dummy connector, depress the tab to remove it and you’ll see four female terminals, the wires are coloured

•   Black/white (12V switched live)
•   Orange/white (diagnostic)
•   Brown (Service Check Short)
•   Green (Chassis ground)

With the ignition switched off short the brown and green wire terminals with a jumper wire. Turn the ignition ON and watch the PGM-FI engine check lamp. If there are no codes stored the lamp will come on and stay on, if there are any stored codes the lamp will flash the DTC main code, the sub code cannot be flashed by the lamp.

The PGM-FI engine check lamp has two types of flash, a long 1.3 second flash and short half second flash. One long flash equals ten short flashes. For example, when two long flashes are followed by three short flashes, the DTC is 23 (two long flashes equals 20 plus the three short flashes equals 23). When the Engine Control Module (ECM) stores more than one DTC the lamp will flash the lowest code first. When finished turn the ignition switch off and remove the jumper wire.

Offline Deak

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Re: Engine wont start
« Reply #8 on: 16 April, 2020, 01:35:55 PM »
Thanks for all your tips ART, latest the bike is now running sweet, don't know how because this morning doing some of the checks and still having no luck. Took one of the spark plug leads out and put a spare spark plug in to check spark. At first there was no spark then tried again and there was a spark but did not look very strong. Put the lead back on the engine spark plug and tried again and the bike fired up. Stopped it a number of times and all ok.
The first time it started up it was a bit lumpy just like the sound when the trouble first started. But when I started the next time all clear. Problem know is whether to trust it on a ride.

Online Art

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Re: Engine wont start
« Reply #9 on: 16 April, 2020, 02:46:02 PM »
Happy Days ahead