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Offline Wanaron

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Battery?Stator?Reg Rec? Advice Please
« on: 28 March, 2020, 08:41:19 PM »
Hi,
Biffer in today at bike shop for new tyres and Mot.
Before taking this morning fired her up; turned over slow but did start.
Turned her off and did a bit of pre mot sprucing up( nothin major just a wipe over and waxed the chain)
With 20 mins left  I packed away the cleaning gear and tried to start- not happening- turning over but slow. Not enough juice to fire up! 11.4 volts
With not a lotta time to sort I whipped off casing and jump started !
But in the ensuing panic connected the red lead to + side of battery on bike and the black lead to - which is ok ,- but the other end of jump leads touched and obviously a small flash albeit brief but it did flash slightly!
Connected correctly and she started, took for Mot but noticed Gipro gear indicator was flashing randomly!
4 miles to Mot but didn't put enough charge in!
They put on charge for about an hour!
Fresh Mot and tyres rode her back , left her tickin over at home but after 20 mins cut out!
Dim ignition lights!
Disconnected battery left off for a bit then reattached and hooked up to Optimate!
Save mode; for half hour or so now Amber charging.
My question is any ideas as to what I'm going to need to sort this?
Ps voltage climbs on multimeter when engine revved to 13.8v
Thanks
Wayne

Offline Art

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Re: Battery?Stator?Reg Rec? Advice Please
« Reply #1 on: 29 March, 2020, 12:01:49 AM »
Sounds as if the battery is faulty or there is a standby current drain fault, before you start testing you need that battery fully charged. If you have the Optimate 1, 2 or 3 they charge at 0.8A and take 12 hours to fully charge a flat 8.6Ah battery, if you have an Optimate 4 that charges at 1A and will take 9 hours. Either way you want to let it charge overnight and then some. Once fully charged and disconnected from the charger allow the battery to rest for 30 minutes and then turn on the headlamp for 2 or 3 minutes to get rid of any surface charge before re-testing. Ignition off, all electrical circuits off and the battery voltage should be greater than 12.4v, anywhere between 12.5v and 12.9v is good to go for further testing of the battery.

Standby current drain - Note multimeter settings for reading amps red probe in the 10A DC socket and select the 10A DC range. Ignition off, disconnect the battery negative lead, connect black probe to negative terminal and red probe to negative lead. Standby current drain should be less than 0.5mA (SC58, MKI) or less than 2mA (SC64, MKII). If the current drain is higher than that you need to investigate and fix the fault.

Battery voltage drop - With the Ignition on, lights on, engine off battery voltage should be around 12.5v to 12.8v dropping slowly to no less than 12v over a 1-2 minute test. If the voltage drops fast or below 12v the battery is faulty.

Battery cold cranking  - Crank the engine while checking the battery voltage, anything above 9.5v is acceptable the nearer to 12v the better, if the voltage drops below 9.5v the battery is faulty.

Stator output voltage - Headlamp on high beam, engine at 5,000 RPM check the voltage across the battery terminals. 13.2v (borderline) to 14.2v is OK. If the output voltage is less than 13v suspect the stator, its connections or wiring. If the output voltage is more than 15v suspect a regulator/rectifier fault.

Offline Wanaron

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Re: Battery?Stator?Reg Rec? Advice Please
« Reply #2 on: 29 March, 2020, 07:05:59 PM »
Thanks Art
Very informative,
Did all the tests that you recommended;charged battery for 18 hours plugged in to an Optimate 3!
Fully charged flashin green :001:
Disconnected Optimate and switched her on left for a bit, switched off multimeter reading of 13.07 volts- switched on ignition ( auto lights etc) dropped to12.10 volts.
Then did the cold crank test, when electric start button pressed voltage dropped briefly to 10.45 volts(very briefly) she started and multimeter reading rose immediately to 14.12 volts when bike revved at 5000 rpm!
And reading 13.24 volts on Tickover!
My guesstimate is that seems all ok?
My question is am I right?
 :465:
Cheers

Offline Art

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Re: Battery?Stator?Reg Rec? Advice Please
« Reply #3 on: 29 March, 2020, 11:59:38 PM »
The Battery would appear to be fine and good to go. Your original symptom is still to be addressed, wht was the battery voltage down at 11.4v? Did you perform the standby current drain test?

Offline KiwiBob

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Re: Battery?Stator?Reg Rec? Advice Please
« Reply #4 on: 30 March, 2020, 07:08:46 AM »
Hi Wayne, I had identical issues with my CBF1000 a couple of months ago. Battery would charge up, start bike, load test was ok, charge voltage was good but on a ride battery would lose charge and I’d be stranded unable to start my bike. I checked resistance in stator and that was ok. I eventually bought a new battery and that solved my problems.
To me it sounds as if the alternator is charging fine. These bikes are known for dodgy stators. If you have a multi meter do a search on this website and there are instructions on how to test the alternator stator just in case I’m wrong. If the stator tests ok I’d be buying a new battery.
Bob


Offline Art

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Re: Battery?Stator?Reg Rec? Advice Please
« Reply #5 on: 30 March, 2020, 09:22:35 AM »
Yes Bob, the battery has to be the prime suspect here at the moment but that needs to be proved before throwing hard earned at it. The Charging System is producing 13.24v on tickover and 14.12v at 5,000 RPM, proving the Charging System, stator, regulator and rectifier are all OK. There is no need to test the stator further. The issue here is why did the battery voltage drop to 11.4v when the Charging System is within specification?

There is now three possible answers left - standby current draw fault, too little use or faulty battery.

At the moment the battery and Electrical System needs further testing. If not already done a standby current draw test is the next logical test followed by testing if the battery can hold its level of charge over time. Lets not rule out the 11.24v low voltage issue may have been caused by too much time parked and little time on the road.

Offline Wanaron

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Re: Battery?Stator?Reg Rec? Advice Please
« Reply #6 on: 30 March, 2020, 11:47:04 AM »
Hi again
Just done the standby draw test ( well I tried) not particularly great with electrics!
Changed the red lead into the 10a socket on the meter and selected 10a on the dial, and connected black lead to negative terminal and red lead to connector obviously separated from battery, but reading just stays at 000.
Moved dial to 20ma still the same and then 200ma but agin still 000..
So not really sure .
At the moment I'm doing a voltage check every couple of hours across the battery to see if it's goin down!
I have always kept the Biffer on an Optimate because of the well known issues with stators and a relatively small battery, but been off now for a couple of weeks, as was using on my sons vehicle. Hence why the problem showed itself.
Bike is used mainly 1 day a week ( most weeks) for at least 40 mile rides and the Motobatt battery is about 18 months old.
Thanks for your help it is appreciated
Wayne

Offline Art

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Re: Battery?Stator?Reg Rec? Advice Please
« Reply #7 on: 30 March, 2020, 01:21:20 PM »
 :430: My mistake, you're getting 0.00 on the 10A DC setting because the reading is out of range, you're looking for <0.5mA which is 0.0005A the multimeter defaults to 0.00A because it can't go to any more than two decimal places.

Lets try that again. Put the red probe back in the "v Ω mA" socket and select the 20mA range on the multimeter dial and as before ignition off, disconnect the battery negative lead, connect black probe to negative terminal and red probe to negative lead. Standby current drain for the SC58 (MKI) should be less than 0.5mA.

No need to check the battery every couple of hours. Check and note the initial voltage level then check and note it daily for a couple of days. You may want to continue the level of charge checks weekly and then monthly just for your own peace of mind. If the battery is holding its level of charge and the engine is cranking OK all is well.

Offline Wanaron

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Re: Battery?Stator?Reg Rec? Advice Please
« Reply #8 on: 31 March, 2020, 09:13:59 AM »
Hi again
Just tried her again on the revised multimeter setting and still returning a reading of 0.00!
I'm presuming from this that all appears to be well and that the drop to 11.04 volts was down to little useage of the bike. As I say it's usually hooked up to an Optimate but temporarily it wasn't.
Going to continue as you say check the voltage every couple of days and then a weekly and monitor it!
If does lose power then I'll get a new battery
Cheers for your help
It is appreciated :047:

Offline Art

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Re: Battery?Stator?Reg Rec? Advice Please
« Reply #9 on: 31 March, 2020, 12:23:07 PM »
The 0.00mA reading may be due to calibration or some other fault with the multimeter. When I last tested mine I was expecting more than the 0.01mA reading I got but for me a low reading, even if suspected to be inaccurate, proved there was no issues with standby current draw. Even with the zero reading it looks as if you're good to go and no need to throw any hard earned at it.

Maybe of interest - One of the most common causes of excessive standby current drain on motorcycles is heated grips wired directly to the battery instead of to a switched live. Even with the automatic switch off there are problems because they only switch off when low voltage is detected by which time it can be too late!

Happy Days

 


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