Author [ES] [CA] [PL] [PT] [IT] [DE] [FR] [NL] [DK] [NO] [GR] [TR] Topic: Front brake service  (Read 939 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Art

  • CBF Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 761
  • Bike: CBF1000 A-6
  • City / Town: London
  • Country: UK
Front brake service
« on: 02 August, 2019, 04:31:53 PM »
Finally got a round tuit this morning. The old pads had about 1 mm left to the wear indicator and the brake fluid hasn't been changed in over 4 years. This is not an how to its how I do it.

A goodly clean of the front brake calipers, pad springs, pistons and pad pins in a bucket of soapy water with tooth brush, well worn scotch pad and a bargain 500 ml can of Triple QX brake & clutch cleaner from Eurocar Parts at just £3.49!

Replaced the front disc pads with another set of Brenta FT3081 standard GG disc pads from Wemoto and another bargain at £12.00 per pair. I find these to be great all round pads for touring, commuting, funday Sundays and service life. A smear of copper grease on the pad lugs and pad backing as well as on the bolt and pin threads, a smear of white silicone grease to the pad pin ends all applied from the ends of a cotton bud so as not to over do it and it keeps my fingers clean.

Replaced the brake fluid with 1L Pagid DOT 4 brake fluid from Euro Car Parts £9.49. My way is to use the new fluid to flush the old fluid out. When doing the rear brake I remove the master cylinder and stand it on a wad of rag to give easier access for topping up, for the front I just wrap the master cylinder in plenty of rag to catch any spillage. The kit I use is home made and comprises of a 500 ml sauce bottle with a 7 mm hole in the lid for the bleed tube and a 3 mm hole as a vent. With the bleed tube fitted through the sauce bottle lid and attached to the bleed nipple I apply the brake, open the nipple and then pump the brake with the nipple remaining open until the bleeding of that nipple is complete. I don't worry about air syphoning back into the caliper, I just give the brake about 15 full pumps by which time the air in the bleed tube has been expelled by the flushed fluid and so long as the end of the tube is in the bottom of the sauce bottle and is kept submerged in fluid there is no back syphoning of air. I keep pumping the brake until clean fresh fluid appears in the tube, this usually takes between 150 to 250 ml of brake fluid, topping up the reservoir after every 15 to 20 pumps on the brake. The sequence I bleed the system is

Rear brake reservoir - front right centre, rear lower, rear upper
Front brake reservoir - front right upper, front left upper

Proper job and two hours well spent, good to go for another 20,000 miles
« Last Edit: 02 August, 2019, 05:20:23 PM by Art »

Offline raYzerman

  • CBF Pro
  • ***
  • Posts: 92
  • Bike: FJR1300A CBF1000
  • City / Town: Millgrove, ON
  • Country: Canada
Re: Front brake service
« Reply #1 on: 05 August, 2019, 06:57:25 PM »
Very good Art, but I usually supplement with a little Simple Green (citrus cleaner), and only use brake cleaner on the pads.  Best thing to clean the caliper pistons is using brake fluid and a toothbrush, certain brake cleaners can harden seals.  I don't use any grease in exposed areas so dirt is not attracted, best dry IMHO.  You can shorten the bleed time if you install SpeedBleeders, a regular bleeder screw but with a spring-loaded ball valve and have a thread sealer to prevent air from going back into the caliper.  Need to make me one of your bleed reservoirs, thanks for the tip.  Tired of kicking over my old glass peanut butter jar, LOL.

Of course, I always do the clutch at the same time to keep it in top notch operation, check and lube the brass bushing in the lever with silicone grease (wont wash out).  I do both brakes and clutch annually, although most OEM's recommend two years.
« Last Edit: 05 August, 2019, 07:00:54 PM by raYzerman »

Offline Art

  • CBF Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 761
  • Bike: CBF1000 A-6
  • City / Town: London
  • Country: UK
Re: Front brake service
« Reply #2 on: 06 August, 2019, 12:58:28 AM »
Always interesting to hear how others tackle the procedure. I think the industry is very cautious on brake fluid service life. I didn't plan to replace the brake fluid until I saw it. When I replace pads I always bleed a little fluid off at the caliper just to see the condition of the fluid at the business end. It wasn't looking good so it had to go. Yes, the clutch fluid was done too, flushed 250 ml through the system using the same method as the brakes. The way I flush and bleed speed bleeders wouldn't be any quicker because I apply the brake, open the nipple and pump the fluid through without closing the nipple until the flushing and bleeding is completed in one operation. Not a method suited to everyone and care must be taken to keep the fluid moving and the reservoir topped up.

Offline Crispy

  • CBF Pro
  • ***
  • Posts: 92
  • Bike: CBF1000A
  • City / Town: Manchester
  • Country: Britain
Re: Front brake service
« Reply #3 on: 16 May, 2020, 10:30:27 AM »
Rear brake reservoir - front right centre, rear lower, rear upper
Front brake reservoir - front right upper, front left upper

Gonna try the flushing method today when I change the pads. Iím not entirely sure how this sequence works? Do you flush the fluid on the front right upper until clear fluid comes through then move to the front left upper? Or alternate from one to the other? Also, is it the same procedure for the rear and Iím sure thereís only one bleed valve on the rear brake.

Cheers
« Last Edit: 16 May, 2020, 10:55:18 AM by Crispy »
A day without learning is a day wasted

Offline Art

  • CBF Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 761
  • Bike: CBF1000 A-6
  • City / Town: London
  • Country: UK
Re: Front brake service
« Reply #4 on: 16 May, 2020, 02:59:15 PM »
Yes - Flush the fluid on the front right upper nipple until clear fluid comes through making sure you keep the reservoir topped up and  then move on to the front left upper nipple  :028:

Then working from the rear reservoir flush the front right centre nipple until clear fluid comes through. Then move onto the rear caliper flushing the lower nipple and then the upper nipple.

I'm not sure the sequence is that important so long as you remember the front right centre nipple is plumbed into the rear brake reservoir you'll be fine. 1L of DOT4 fluid will be more than enough (250 ml per caliper) with sufficient left (250 ml) to do the clutch.

edit: The SC58 CBF1000A (ABS model) has two bleed nipples on the rear caliper.


« Last Edit: 16 May, 2020, 03:25:19 PM by Art »

Offline Crispy

  • CBF Pro
  • ***
  • Posts: 92
  • Bike: CBF1000A
  • City / Town: Manchester
  • Country: Britain
Re: Front brake service
« Reply #5 on: 16 May, 2020, 09:09:52 PM »
The flushing method works a treat. Itís the same way as the Haynes manual describes it but Haynes doesnít mention bleeding through the left caliper and it threw me a bit. But then why would there be a bleed nipple on the left caliper if it wasnít the last point of travel for the brake fluid? Kind of wondering if you could just run the brake fluid through the left or right caliper nipple without doing both on the front brakes? Had a good look at the front brake lines and itís hard to work out on the ABS Biffer where the brake fluid comes out last, left or right?

Braking is a lot better with new pads and fluid. Rear brake was nearly black when I looked at it, itís a lot darker in colour when you take the reservoir cap off. Bike feels great and looks happy with clear brake fluid in the reservoirs. Love this machine  :037:
A day without learning is a day wasted

Offline Art

  • CBF Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 761
  • Bike: CBF1000 A-6
  • City / Town: London
  • Country: UK
Re: Front brake service
« Reply #6 on: 16 May, 2020, 10:43:16 PM »
Happy Days

Offline raYzerman

  • CBF Pro
  • ***
  • Posts: 92
  • Bike: FJR1300A CBF1000
  • City / Town: Millgrove, ON
  • Country: Canada
Re: Front brake service
« Reply #7 on: 17 May, 2020, 11:10:27 PM »
FYI, typical flush and bleed starts with the furthest point from the master cylinder... so left caliper, then right... no can't skip one of the calipers... but it will take much less to do the right once the left is flushed.  That's the technical part but sometimes that's a bit like splitting hairs, there's not a lot of difference left to right... whatever the factory manual says is how it should be done.
Black is bad.... means it hasn't been done for eons... annually is best for freshest fluid/least moisture, most OEM manuals say every two years, which is OK too as long as you don't forget.  Clutch can be darker quicker (on some bikes) as it sees engine heat and more cycles of heat/cooldown.
« Last Edit: 17 May, 2020, 11:12:07 PM by raYzerman »

Offline Art

  • CBF Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 761
  • Bike: CBF1000 A-6
  • City / Town: London
  • Country: UK
Re: Front brake service
« Reply #8 on: 18 May, 2020, 08:33:53 AM »
That's how they taught us in college. When bleeding brake lines always start with the longest brake line run first, and the reason for this is that it prevents any air in the system from being forced down a brake line that has already been bled of air, however, there are exceptions to this rule! Working at the front reservoir on the CBF1000 the brake line to the front left caliper is the longest but with the difference being just an inch or two here the rule is to follow the path of least resistance (the straighter of the two brake lines) and bleed the right hand caliper first. That is why the Honda recommended sequence here is right upper then left left upper, although this is not always guaranteed to give a firm brake lever, see below.

Working at the rear reservoir the difference in the length of the brake lines is several feet so it is more critical to follow the rule of bleeding the longest brake line first, so the sequence for the rear is front right centre, rear lower and rear upper. Remember when you have two brake fluid reservoirs you have two brake systems albeit they can be partially connected by a combined braking system and the ABS pump.

Of interest here too is the reason why so many home mechanics on here have had difficulties in bleeding the front brake lines after draining the system. It is because of trapped air in the system being be pushed to and fro between the two front brake lines at the union. Honda Technicians get around this by bleeding the system twice. Firstly by the conventional method of pushing or pumping the fluid through the system and secondly by pulling or sucking the fluid out of the system by means of a vacuum pump. If you don't drain the system and use the new fluid to flush out the old fluid you won't encounter this problem because air does not enter the system.