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Offline dbrewerton

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Re: Fuel pump
« Reply #10 on: 16 June, 2019, 05:45:30 AM »
Well, problem solved and the mystery remains.
The initial thought was plugs. Replaced at 19,000km with what was to have been Iridium plugs. Now, 23,000km later while putting in Iridium replacements, it turns out they never put in Iridium (nor did they charge me for Iridium). Still no go. Fuel pump tested out perfect. Battery runs very well. Fuel was winter old but with fuel stabilizer. We checked for spark, had a good spark. Checked timing and it seemed to be off. Ignition coils on line that were declared as for Honda 4 cylinder, 2 coil engines that are between 1966 and 2015 and for 250-1500cc engines turned out to be too big. The company was shocked and is investigating. OEM coils ordered from Honda at only just over double the price but they match. Replaced and still no go. Checked the wiring around the ignition and the HISS but no problems there. In trying to boost it from the mechanics Suburban rather than the battery it liked it more, turned over faster, but no go. Eventually cranking it full gas on to force more air in (in case it was flooded) with it boosted from the SUV it almost caught. Multiple times like that including a break to let the starter cool down eventually resulted in starting the engine. It got closer and closer as it was tried more and more. When it started, there was smoke from the exhausts but that's no longer happening. In short, the end result is that it's started and I got out on two rides for just over 200km today to burn off over half of the fuel on board then filled it. We still don't know what the actual problem was. All I can guess is that something was stuck that eventually was worked loose in the constant starting tries. I'll try running some engine cleaner through this tank to maybe clean it out more. I'm half way between oil changes but I'll do one, just in case. (Amsoil Metric Motorcycle oil 10W/30)

Offline Art

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Re: Fuel pump
« Reply #11 on: 16 June, 2019, 11:49:31 AM »
Are you replacing those spark plugs before time? NGK give a service life of;

30,000 miles (48,000 Km) for their CR8EH-9 (nickel centre electrode) spark plugs
and
50,000 miles (80,000 Km) for their CR8EHIX-9 (iridium centre electrode) spark plugs

I know Honda recommend replacement at 16,000 miles (24,000 Km) or 24 months whichever is the sooner. The questions are what would cause a spark plug to deteriorate over the course of 24 months and why do Honda reduce the manufacturers service life by around half??
« Last Edit: 16 June, 2019, 11:55:43 AM by Art »

Offline dbrewerton

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Re: Fuel pump
« Reply #12 on: 16 June, 2019, 03:34:49 PM »
I'm not sure. My manual states 12K for Inspection and 24K for replacement. When I was at 19000km it wouldn't start that spring and I had into the dealer. They said it was the plugs, asked if I wanted regular or Iridium and I said Iridium. They replaced the plugs and it started. I'm guessing that, just like now, they didn't have the Iridium in stock (2-3 days to get) so they just did the regular plugs. The plugs were black on the ends when we replaced them now (23000km in the bike). Even if they were still good, they've now been replaced with Iridium ones. (NGK) As for the shorter interval, could the longer interval stated by NGK be in a car vs a motorcycle? Motorcycles are usually running at a higher RPM than a car engine so would that shorten life? I can take a picture of the plugs that we removed if that would help. I know that white ends is usually too lean but these were black.

Offline Art

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Re: Fuel pump
« Reply #13 on: 16 June, 2019, 09:28:40 PM »
Spark plugs turn black due to carbon build up which is caused by a rich fuel:air mixture. The carbon build up can lead to the plugs producing a weak spark because the spark plug gap becomes reduced and is less effective. Carbon build up can also be caused by flooding, flooding can be caused by water condensation, water condensation can be caused by laying the motorcycle up over winter. Which I'd suggest may be your reoccurring problem here.

Replacing carbon fouled spark plugs is what workshops do, they remove the old plugs see they've not been firing right and replace them in the knowledge that the fuel injection system would not get the mixture wrong.

Offline jm2

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Re: Fuel pump
« Reply #14 on: 16 June, 2019, 09:46:51 PM »
*Originally Posted by Art [+]
...I know Honda recommend replacement at 16,000 miles (24,000 Km) or 24 months whichever is the sooner. ...why do Honda reduce the manufacturers service life by around half??
I don't think they do:-
At least on the MkII, Honda recommend inspect at 16,000 miles and replace at 32,000miles.
Only do it right - no bodging please.   Keeper of the failed stator list.   John.

Offline Art

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Re: Fuel pump
« Reply #15 on: 16 June, 2019, 10:39:12 PM »
Attention to detail we're talking about CR8EH-9 spark plugs here as recommended for CBF1000 SC58 (MKI). dbrewerton having a CBF1000 A-8 and I having a CBF1000 A-6

Of interest to yourself and other SC64 (MKII) owners NGK give a service life of 100,000 miles (160,000 Km) for their IMR8C-9H iridium spark plugs and Honda reduce this to less than one third.

Noting that NGK spark plug specifications are
CR8EH-9's have nickel centre electrode and nickel ground electrode (30,000 miles service life)
CR8EHIX-9's have iridium centre electrode and nickel ground electrode (50,000 miles service life)
IMR8C-9H's have iridium centre electrode and platinum ground electrode (100,000 miles service life)
Hence the price difference of what at first glance may appear to be similar spark plugs
« Last Edit: 16 June, 2019, 11:04:59 PM by Art »

Offline Art

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Re: Fuel pump
« Reply #16 on: 17 June, 2019, 11:41:58 PM »
Maybe the title should be changed to 'Spark Plugs'

Offline jm2

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Re: Fuel pump
« Reply #17 on: 19 June, 2019, 11:36:16 AM »
*Originally Posted by Art [+]
Maybe the title should be changed to 'Spark Plugs'
Yes, or change your username to Art Sparks - but at least I did quantify my mkII.

Only do it right - no bodging please.   Keeper of the failed stator list.   John.

 


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