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Offline riles

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Re: Relatively cheap Lithion Ion battery
« Reply #10 on: 01 February, 2014, 10:55:54 AM »
I hate to be a wet blanket but would urge a little caution.
I'd hate Honda to wriggle out of a stator replacement under warranty because you were using a non-standard battery.
If that doesn't bother you at least make sure it has a 'CE' approval if you live in Europe.
I'm positive these batteries will soon become the new standard, just not sure how soon.
Just my opinion, of course.
SR
PS Please don't use a standard charger! (See my next offering!)
« Last Edit: 02 February, 2014, 12:44:22 PM by riles »

Offline Shamone

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Re: Relatively cheap Lithion Ion battery
« Reply #11 on: 01 February, 2014, 10:58:35 AM »
How's best to charge them? If the bikes charging circuit just gives the battery 14v to charge it wouldn't a cheapo car battery charger do the same thing?

Offline johnstg2

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Re: Relatively cheap Lithion Ion battery
« Reply #12 on: 01 February, 2014, 12:59:32 PM »
I think the chargers to avoid are "Optimate" style ones, where they cycle through different processes such as "de-sulphation".....whatever that is? They do now make chargers (or battery tenders as they call them) specifically for Li-ion batteries so make sure you get the correct type.
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Offline Sunset Rider

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Re: Relatively cheap Lithion Ion battery
« Reply #13 on: 02 February, 2014, 10:47:36 AM »
*Originally Posted by riles [+]
I hate to be a wet blanket but would urge a little caution.
I'd hate Honda to wriggle out of a stator replacement under warranty because you were using a non-standard battery.
If that doesn't bother you at least make sure it has a 'CE' approval if you live in Europe.
I'm positive these batteries will soon become the new standard, just not sure how soon.
Just my opinion, of course.
SR
PS Please don't use a standard charger!

No, I think you need adifferent charger.....but thankfully have not had the need for one yet. Have to agree, I think that it will be the standardsoon....but can't see manufacturers moving away from their sweethart deal with conventional battery makers any time soon....much the same arguement as putting sub standard tyres on newbikes I guess.
I might be mad or even slightly insane....but I LOVE my CBF1000GT

Offline riles

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Re: Relatively cheap Lithion Ion battery
« Reply #14 on: 02 February, 2014, 01:06:17 PM »
Had another look at charging.

As Johnstg2 said already, the desulphate mode of a regular Optimate is incompatible with Li Ion batteries.
As I currently (!) understand it you can use a bog-standard battery charger IF the battery has built-in protection circuitry similar to that found in these and presumably the AntiGravity LI batteries:
http://www.lithiumion-batteries.com/LithiumIonBatteryProtectionSystem.php

which basically has

    Low Voltage Protection Switch  - Automatically disconnects at 8V
    Over Voltage Protection Switch - Automatically disconnects at 15.8V
    Short Circuit Protection Switch - Automatically disconnects
    Reverse Polarity Protection Switch - Automatically disconnects
    Internal cell balancing   - Automatically balances cells  I believe that's really important
    Charge Balancing - Independant balancing for multiple batteries connected in parallel or in series.

For longest life a LI needs around 14.5v in the charge circuit, you guys would know better than me if that is what our regulator chucks out.

Offline RogerG

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Re: Relatively cheap Lithion Ion battery
« Reply #15 on: 03 February, 2014, 07:45:09 AM »
If its true that Lithium Ion batteries do not lose their charge when left unused for long periods of time, there is no need for a charger.
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Offline golfsharpy12

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Re: Relatively cheap Lithion Ion battery
« Reply #16 on: 03 February, 2014, 09:25:23 AM »
*Originally Posted by RogerG [+]
If its true that Lithium Ion batteries do not lose their charge when left unused for long periods of time, there is no need for a charger.

Li batteries do self-discharge - initially at a lower rate (1-2% per month) than the norm but then as the % charge lowers the discharge rate accelerates.  However also be aware that once they go below a certain level - manufacturer dependant they can have their chemical composition changed and be irreversibly damaged.  They also carry a greater fire hazard when in a semi-discharged state - though this usually requires the skin to be punctured.   I sit on an ICAO working Group that has (unfortunately) deliberated considerably on Li batteries and there are genuine hazards that most users do not appreciate.   

Rgds Steve

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?sa=X&rlz=2C1CHFX_enGB0537GB0537&espv=210&es_sm=122&biw=1920&bih=955&tbm=isch&tbnid=Y0mewoDrQCw8TM%3A&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mpoweruk.com%2Fperformance.htm&docid=wACZDcHHe0nigM&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mpoweruk.com%2Fimages%2Fdischarge-C-rate.gif&w=400&h=308&ei=WV_vUoP0HI6BhAep34D4AQ&zoom=1&ved=0CFcQhBwwAA&iact=rc&dur=3090&page=1&start=0&ndsp=33


See below:

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/everyday-tech/lithium-ion-battery.htm


Offline Rev Ken

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Re: Relatively cheap Lithion Ion battery
« Reply #17 on: 03 February, 2014, 09:13:11 PM »
Would the battery fires on the latest passenger aircraft be LI?
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Offline golfsharpy12

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Re: Relatively cheap Lithion Ion battery
« Reply #18 on: 03 February, 2014, 09:28:36 PM »
Indeed they were (on the Boeing Dreamliner) - they are more dangerous in their discharged state.  Hopefully,  not a problem unless you have an alternator failure and crash, Hopefully an unlikely scenario, :188:








« Last Edit: 04 February, 2014, 03:30:33 PM by golfsharpy12 »

Offline johnstg2

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Re: Relatively cheap Lithion Ion battery
« Reply #19 on: 04 February, 2014, 11:56:46 AM »
*Originally Posted by Rev Ken [+]
Would the battery fires on the latest passenger aircraft be LI?


Read this recently....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25810331

Don't know if there are any implications for motorcycle batteries. What would your insurance company say if a non-standard Li-ion battery sets your bike on fire? All modifications should be declared.
Boys never grow up - their toys just get more expensive.

 


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